Comments on Animal Pharm: Eden: Liver = Heart

Mathman,There is potential for the thyroid and oth...

2009-02-13T14:14:00.000-08:00

Mathman,

There is potential for the thyroid and other glands to heal and re-operate properly. Supplying the building blocks of the immune system and certain co-factors and nutrients are vital for optimal regeneration.

Read:
Michael Colgan PhD -- Hormone balance for intellectual longevity

Check this out:
DR.Hyman's blog--Thyroid
He advises for thyroid health:
--Magnesium
--Zinc
--Selenium
--B-complex vits
--Vitamin ADEK
--Fish oil EPA DHA

I think Flaxseed oil is excellent too. Have you had any potential heavy metal poisoning (play with mercury as a kid??)...fillings falling out?? etc

Is your vitamin D 25(OH)D at 75 ng/ml? This could be the missing link for you!

-G

I have definitely been toying around with the idea...

2009-02-13T13:38:00.000-08:00

I have definitely been toying around with the idea of dumping the androgel and seeing if I can resume production. "T" was at 200 before I started supplementing last year and now I am at 460. So much of how I live (workout intensity, fasting, etc.) is designed to maximize hormone production and I lose out on a lot of that since I am no longer in control of at least T production. My TSH was 1.86 when tested in Sept. but I have no idea what that number means. I do feel cold quite often and for a guy that seems odd.
I already supplement with Vit. D but should I use Niacin with the elevated liver tests?

Add'l mathman have you considered ways to naturall...

2009-02-12T22:29:00.000-08:00

Add'l mathman have you considered ways to naturally increase T?
A wonderful book a good friend recommended is Michael Colgan PhD Hormone Balance (for Intellectual Longevity)!

At TYP we achieve this also via:
--vitamin D (yes this raises ALL hormone levels -- reck T in 2-3 mos after getting vitamin D 25(OH)D to 75 ng/ml -- testosterone free always improves sometimes from 200s to 700s.)
--Slo niacin (requires some MD monitoring of liver tests, uric acid)
--strength work like HIIT, tabata or Crossfit followed by adequate protein 30-60min after the workout
--adequate sleep -- good quantity, good quality; Sleep is where we make Testosterone and hGH
--reduction in stress (reduces Cortisol which wrecks Testosterone and other hormone levels)
--fats -- egg yolks, cholesterol, the fats that you are doing a good job of consuming adequately
--low carb, low insulin diet (it's great ur wheat free)
--hormone normalization (no low thyroid? TSH=1.0? etc)

You'll get there!!

-G

mathman,I'm only ~37 and I also have iatrogenic sy...

2009-02-12T21:30:00.000-08:00

mathman,

I'm only ~37 and I also have iatrogenic synthetic hormone-induced problems
--melasma
--wt gain
--hair loss
--sucky mood
--acne (finally gone)
--libido issues
--etc

Don't estimate how horrible synthetic drugs/hormones are.

Good luck and let me know is you see progress soon! Paleo is still the best prescription I believe (even for apo E4 imho -- I just don't have the data yet).

-G

No history of Alzheimers and yes I am 33. I had t...

2009-02-12T20:10:00.000-08:00

No history of Alzheimers and yes I am 33. I had the ultrasound on my liver already and luckily it came back negative. I will ask MD if I stop Androgel if I can get re-tested. I want to thank you immensely for your generous advice.

BTW- the weird thing is that my liver/cholesterol tests were great while doing Atkins. Now that I went Paleo, cut out the crap and upped the veggies big time, my health indicators seem to be nose-diving. Lifes a bitch!

Mathman,I would consider a taking break in the And...

2009-02-12T10:50:00.000-08:00

Mathman,

I would consider a taking break in the Androgel (see below). You are only 33, is that correct?

Is there any Alzheimer's in the family history? Apo E4 may contribute to some changes when saturated fat intake is 'excessive'. I haven't looked deeply into this yet but there is some evidence the type of fat can make a difference for certain genotypes.

Abdominal ultrasound.

The below is from Micromedex an online drug database. Androgel in the drug manufacturer findings list liver problems.

"Testosterone therapy has been associated with increases
in total bilirubin and alterations in liver function
tests (Prod Info AndroGel(R), 2003)."

Thank you,
G

Thank you for all of your advice. Yes I am dairy ...

2009-02-12T10:15:00.000-08:00

Thank you for all of your advice. Yes I am dairy free (I am basically a LC and high saturated fat Paleo guy) and I take 4 fish oil pills daily.
The frustrating part is I'm under 10% BF, relatively young, and I feel well but there is always this doubt in my head whether this diet is the healthiest due to the indoctrination we all receive from the AHA, USDA, etc. Hard evidence lies in lab results, and my wife has used these liver/anemia/cholesterol test results to confirm her belief that how I eat is unhealthy.
If you are aware of any further tests that I can request from my doctor I would greatly appreciate your input.

mathman,How Paleo/OD are you? Dairy free completel...

2009-02-11T20:43:00.000-08:00

mathman,

How Paleo/OD are you? Dairy free completely?

For some (or many including my younger sister 'M') are intolerant of casein, which displays opioid peptide like/damaging/addictive properties like wheat/gluten. Casein can induce NASH and elevated liver tests as well.

It is interesting that you mention artificial sweeteners! I noticed you mentioned that at Peter's blog too... forgot to ask about that!

High insulin from artificial sweeteners can increase blood sugars, TGs and fat infiltration into the liver. Consider reduction or complete elimination of sweeteners? Studies do indicate that fake sweeteners cause just as much diabetes and insulin resistance as real sugar. Robb Wolf at his Crossfit nutrition cert discussed the harm and lack of benefits associated with use of all the artificial sweeteners.

Let me know how it goes. Are you taking fish oil? Fish oil, carb restriction, reduction of fructose, weight loss (though it appears your wt, BF are fine), etc help liver function tests. Good luck and thanks for your comments.

G

My one non-real food vice is non-caloric sweetners...

2009-02-11T20:04:00.000-08:00

My one non-real food vice is non-caloric sweetners (splenda, saccarine, and stevia). I figured I would just add that in case there is any relevance.

I have only been anemic since low carbing (about 3...

2009-02-11T19:12:00.000-08:00

I have only been anemic since low carbing (about 3 years now). When I first started low carb I would eat the phony products made with soy and wheat gluten, but I have been eating paleo/Optimal Diet for the past 8 months so wheat was eliminated long ago.
I am at a fantastic weight, even a little "buff" since I do high intensity strength training 3 X week. My supplements are all natural and I forgot to mention I also take Vit.D and/or CLO. I do not believe I have any digestive issues. I do not take niacin or any anti-fungals.
I used to make and drink Kombucha tea in the past, but I stopped that several months ago.

Hi mathman...Have you ever been anemic before? Ar...

2009-02-11T06:30:00.000-08:00

Hi mathman...

Have you ever been anemic before? Are you a recent recovering wheataholic?

Wheat can trigger many damages in the gut and GI tract leading to a condition called 'leaky gut' syndrome. Red blood cells frequently leak out as well subsequently causing anemia and pica (cravings for ice or stuff like iceberg lettuce or children tend to randomly 'chew' on things).

Wheat also triggers fatty liver (NASH=non-alcholic steatosis hepatitis) and frequently elevated liver tests. I've noticed this takes about 2-3 mos to resolve after one stops wheat, loses weight, and/or controls their blood sugars.

Are all your supplements natural (v. synthetic which you never want)?

Androgel is absorbed in the skin and therefore bypasses the liver so I doubt that is it.

You haven't taken any antifungals like Lamisil (for toe fungus) or statins or niacin which may affect the liver?

-G

I have only discovered it 4 months ago while learn...

2009-02-10T20:08:00.000-08:00

I have only discovered it 4 months ago while learning that my cholesterol has doubled over the past year. Tri-66 LDL-160 HDL-69. I take fish oil,Lipoic Acid, CoQ10, Vit. E, Magnesium, and Vit. C for supplements and testosterone cream for drugs (androgel).
Liver inflammation is scaring me. My tests also came back mildly anemic and my white blood cell count is low as well (3.8). All of this as I am fanatical about being healthy, I weightlift, and I am only 33. What gives? Could it be the HRT, my endo says no relationship between HRT and cholesterol.

Hi MathMan,How long have they been elevated and wh...

2009-02-10T16:18:00.000-08:00

Hi MathMan,

How long have they been elevated and what's your weight/height? Any medications, supplements you are taking?

Thanks,
G

I do not consume any wheat/starch and my typical c...

2009-02-10T13:12:00.000-08:00

I do not consume any wheat/starch and my typical carb intake is around 50g per day all from veggies. what should I make of elevated ALT/AST enzymes( in the 60's)? I am eating clean, mostly saturated fats I believe, and an ultrasound showed no damage. I want to keep my liver in tip-top shape so what should I do?

Try this link

2008-07-15T08:08:00.000-07:00

Try this link

Yeah, I'm still figuring the adaptation part...Ok....

2008-07-14T16:52:00.000-07:00

Yeah, I'm still figuring the adaptation part...

Ok... sorry about the link -- try cut and pasting...
http://projectfit.org/
iflifeblog/2008/07/11/
insulin-and-sugar-the-
one-hormone-you-need-to-
control-and-the-one-enemy-
you-need-to-avoid/

Hope that works! I'll probably make a link on a post soon since Mark's info is so GOOD.

Thank you for your kind words. Let me know how it goes!
G

I'm still not sure I am totally convinced of being...

2008-07-14T14:54:00.000-07:00

I'm still not sure I am totally convinced of being able to perform at my best without carbs, but I am willing to give it a go. As I'm still young, I don't find recovery from athletic events a problem, so I won't be able to use that measuring stick ;)

BTW, the link you posted for projectfit.org is a bit too long and I can't click it for some reason. Thanks for the info and keep up the great work!

BTW Mark at OD life is awesome (and an endurance a...

2008-07-14T07:43:00.000-07:00

BTW Mark at OD life is awesome (and an endurance athlete like you)...

http://projectfit.org/iflifeblog/2008/07/11/insulin-and-sugar-the-one-hormone-you-need-to-control-and-the-one-enemy-you-need-to-avoid/

Actually, according to my understanding (which is ...

2008-07-14T07:13:00.000-07:00

Actually, according to my understanding (which is hampered by my poor physics/biochem) the energetics of both the heart and skeletal muscles prefer fatty acids, not glucose. Glucose only becomes preferred for brief seconds during anoxia to protect the heart by preventing free radicals. The 'nuclear energy' for the body is actually fat -- our stored white adipose (long term storage depot) and fatty acids in skeletal muscles/liver (temporary storage from carbs/fat). If you train on an empty stomach, you train the body's machinery to tap immediately and quickly into all the fat stores. For long endurance events, our bodies always go a little ketotic. Did you know we are a little ketotic on some mornings? The brain relies on only 2 energy sources -- glucose and ketones. The body easily switches depending on what's going on.

Just living generates free radicals. The trade off with more powerful energy like nuclear/fatty acids is more pollution. But the body has several layers of 'self-protection' which include antioxidants from food -- vitamin E, flavanoids from food, and the (!!best) EPA DHA from fish oil. The multitude of double bonds on these long chain fatty acids accept the damage from many electron donors like pollution generated from fat utilization and disposal. Many athletes take fish oil... did you know?

I've been experimenting the last 2-3 wks and finished a half-marathon yesterday (although I didn't train and got in < 10 miles/wk). I have to say that performance was a little hard despite hitting a PR at this race. People say acclimiting takes several wks. The recover from this race was the best ever -- no achiness, no sore tired feeling at all, no tight hams!

Have you heard how we have maximal hormone secretion with 'muscle confusion'? I think also that maximal hormonal controls occur with random, mixed up eating times. Matching veggie-carbs with protein at meals/snacks is a good way to balance (the hormones). Zone/Paleo is the way to go!

-G

Well, my most of exercise is of the sprint variety...

2008-07-14T00:15:00.000-07:00

Well, my most of exercise is of the sprint variety (soccer mostly). I could definitely see a benefit with an endurance activity, because that makes sense.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding that in activities with extremely high heart rates (mine is anywhere from 150-190 while playing), fat isn't used as the primary fuel source, hence the carbo-loading theory. If I don't consume a large number of carbs before I play, I always seem to "run out of gas" after about half an hour. I've tried it for a couple of weeks to go without, but if it truly takes as long as you say to properly acclimate, I fear I may never reach that point, as my competitive drive regularly overrides my good sense.

Stephen Phinney, UC Davis emeritus professor, has...

2008-07-12T15:34:00.000-07:00

Stephen Phinney, UC Davis emeritus professor, has written some articles about training in ketosis. It's quite possible and in fact I think performance improves when our bodies have trained to effectively use fatty acids (instead of relying on glucose and glycogen only which are just 'kindling').

RobbWolf.com and the Atkins Advantage are written by athletes who advise intensive exericse without excessive carbs (incl fruit). The Atkins author in fact has done the IronMan several times and placed in the Ultra-Ironman! The general range for carbs (from vegs, low GI fruit, oat bran, etc) is < 20-40-60 g/day dep on wt loss/maintenance/body fat re-composition.

Personally I'm still experimenting with my endurance events (1/2 marathons, tri's). I noticed I do better without GU and don't bonk if I train sans meals. Getting acclimated may take several weeks of training is my observation (been doing now for ~2mos). Others how are really conditioned notice in fact improvements in performance IMMEDIATELY. Now I only bonk if I cheated and ate too many carbs on the wkend... sucks...

In my opinion it's not necessary for performance to suffer (and this is the observation for many people I know who intermittent fast and do Crossfit).

For you to best know if the carbs are affecting your lipoproteins, heart health and cardiac risk, check out your TG/HDL ratio which is a good surrogate for insulin sensitivity and presence of small dense LDL (except for those with hetero- or homozygous FH and exaggerated risk for famililial hypertrig). TG/HDL < 0.50-0.60 is optimal. For more reassurance/evaluation, even better to check out the calcium burden on EBT (radiation is minimal equivalent to ~3 Xrays; 30-sec test). DR. Davis advises > 40 men, > 45 yo for females (or earlier if any premature CAD in the family).

Let me know how it goes it you experiment!

-G

So what happens if fruit is consumed with a very a...

2008-07-12T12:12:00.000-07:00

So what happens if fruit is consumed with a very active lifestyle? I exercise a LOT (perhaps too much, with high-intensity cardio 11 hours per week, but such is the nature of playing a sport you love), and I try to avoid carbs as much as possible. However, I simply don't perform as well if I don't consume a banana and oranges before such intense exercise. Am I to understand that I should just deal with the lower performance and exclude this fruit from my diet altogether?

Hey Andrew,No...(and I LOVE blueberry pie)Our bodi...

2008-07-11T20:17:00.000-07:00

Hey Andrew,

No...(and I LOVE blueberry pie)

Our bodies evolutionarily were designed to grow very fat with fruit. We're not meant to eat/drink gatorade or fruit (nature's candy/JUNK FOOD) all day long. Fruit/fructose is actually worse than table sugar biochemically (pls see below). Hundreds of studies like this exist.

Berries, like blueberries, have a little less carbs then bananas, grapes and other fruits, so they are maybe a little more permissible imo. Much fruit has been genetically engineered or bred to have very high fructose content and are bigger than the fruit that we grew up with... probably not great for us.

I'd prefer to get my antioxidants from seafood, nuts/seeds, fish oil, egg yolks, grass fed beef/milk, and organic locally grown veggies. And supplements!

Fructose I believe sets off our immune system if excessive. An overactive immune system causes plaque to grow exponentially. For those with plaque, we need to minimize and control inflammation. That is the singlemost important key to regression. Many bacteria/virus/ prokaryotes have fructose or mannose on the outside of the cell membranes. Our innate first line host defense recognizes this as 'foreign'. Recognition subsequently sets off the immune system via complement and MBL (mannose-binding lectin). Unfortunately, I believe when fructose from our diet spills through the liver via the first pass effect for dietary meals, our immune system gets a big 'orange alert' that TERRORISTS are in the VICINITY. You know what I suspect then happens? Like the airports and bridges after 9/11 an overexaggerated security system stops all traffic and causes congestion.

Hey, my dad was a medic for the cornhuskers for 1-2 seasons! That's one of the proudest moments for him :) I was born in Lincoln.

BTW did you check the Gladiator post??
http://drbganimalpharm.blogspot.com/2008/06/wheat-raises-insulin-and-upregulates.html

J Nutr. 2008 Jun;138(6):1039-46.
Dietary sugars stimulate fatty acid synthesis in adults.Parks EJ, Skokan LE, Timlin MT, Dingfelder CS.

The goal of this study was to determine the magnitude by which acute consumption of fructose in a morning bolus would stimulate lipogenesis (measured by infusion of 13C1-acetate and analysis by GC-MS) immediately and after a subsequent meal. Six healthy subjects [4 men and 2 women; aged (mean +/- SD) 28 +/- 8 y; BMI, 24.3 +/- 2.8 kg/m(2); and serum triacylglycerols (TG), 1.03 +/- 0.32 mmol/L] consumed carbohydrate boluses of sugars (85 g each) in a random and blinded order, followed by a standardized lunch 4 h later. Subjects completed a control test of glucose (100:0) and a mixture of 50:50 glucose:fructose and one of 25:75 (wt:wt). Following the morning boluses, serum glucose and insulin after 100:0 were greater than both other treatments (P < 0.05) and this pattern occurred again after lunch. In the morning, fractional lipogenesis was stimulated when subjects ingested fructose and peaked at 15.9 +/- 5.4% after the 50:50 treatment and at 16.9 +/- 5.2% after the 25:75 treatment, values that were greater than after the 100:0 treatment (7.8 +/- 5.7%; P < 0.02). When fructose was consumed, absolute lipogenesis was 2-fold greater than when it was absent (100:0). Postlunch, serum TG were 11-29% greater than 100:0 and TG-rich lipoprotein-TG concentrations were 76-200% greater after 50:50 and 25:75 were consumed (P < 0.05). The data demonstrate that an early stimulation of lipogenesis after fructose, consumed in a mixture of sugars, augments subsequent postprandial lipemia. The postlunch blood TG elevation was only partially due to carry-over from the morning. Acute intake of fructose stimulates lipogenesis and may create a metabolic milieu that enhances subsequent esterification of fatty acids flowing to the liver to elevate TG synthesis postprandially.

PMID: 18492831

Take care!
BG

Don't the benefits of consuming fruits outweigh th...

2008-07-11T14:34:00.000-07:00

Don't the benefits of consuming fruits outweigh the possible negative impacts on one's liver, given a diet that seeks to avoid wheat already?