Friday, June 12, 2009

Benefits of High-Saturated Fat Diets (Part III): My Paleo Peeps With High HDLs

Wanna know what impresses?

Gambling...? Gawwds, no...got no pokerface...
(Lady Gaga)


Tell me your labs. (Or show me ur abs...j/k)

You'll get a reaction.

Yeah, you thought... I was... e a s y. *ahhhaa*

I'm not.



When I hear an HDL cholesterol is off the charts, like triple-digit-over-100 mg/dl... you my dear have my full attention.



HDL Cholesterol: The Higher, The HOTTER

HAWT HDLs.

The goal for health optimization for HDL-cholesterol is 60 mg/dl or higher. Studies like the Four Prospective American Studies by Castelli WP et al found "A 1-mg/dl increment in HDL-C was associated with a significant coronary heart disease risk decrement of 2% in men (Framingham/FHS, CPPT, and MRFIT) and 3% in women (FHS)."

According to master cardiologist Dr. Castelli (who has successfully escaped premature family hx of CAD), if one's baseline HDLs are 30's and one increases this to 80's, this may represent a 100% reduction in relative risk for a coronary event. For girls, if one increases from HDLs 50's to 80's, then also a 100% coronary risk reduction could be relied upon.

Sounds excellent to me!

It is not difficult to raise HDLs.

This is observed all over in the evolutionary/paleo blogosphere, at Bernstein's diabetes, Protein Power Drs.Eades blog, at TYP in only those on high sat fat and/or [no or low-statin+wt-loss] and in clinical practice ALL THE TIME.

Eliminating wheat/d*mn-dirty-GRAINS/carbs, adding some vitamin D, omega-3s, Taurine, and Slo-Niacin 1-2 grams/day. Throwing away the Mazola and any packaged food items. Oh yeah, and add some fat. Individuals may continue their EVO (but not too much b/c it cranks up hepatic lipase, see
HERE) but they increase eggs 2-6 daily, add some (organic nitrate-free preferably) bacon and some coconut oil.

And...reduce their statin (if even taking).

I know, s a c r i l e g e . . .

Consider the value of not over-statinating.

Over-statinating stagnates the formation of large particles. wtf. This is observed on the TYP forum frequently in over-statinators -- and easily corrected. The statin or fibrate is withheld or severely dose-reduced (TYPically, I advise 'licking the tablet' and that is a clinical term). See below medscape cases as well.

Yes, statins and fibrates LOWER HDLs ('good chol') for many individuals. Lipitor is the worse. Drugs appear to cause a 'ceiling' effect for HDLs and small dense LDL. Marginally on paper these may improve, however iatrogenically they fail to improve FURTHER beyond the ceiling.

Esp if low sat fat.

Esp additionally if you are an apo E2 carrier (you have lower TC LDL HDLs compared to the general pop). Or... if you eat low fat, low cholesterol, low saturated fatty acids. The interaction is hypothesized to be related to a statin-and/or-fibrate-related apo A1 reduction in activity (and because you are chol/saturated-fatty-acid-deficient).

Please, Ladies and Gents... what nicely raises cardioprotective HDLs (and apoA1) and lowers TOXIC small LDL and Lp(a) ?
Saturated fat and C H O L E S T E R O L.


Yeah, even if you are moderately high carb, smoke, and had an event already. We'll go over some post-CAD event trials in the near future to describe yet again some interesting paradoxes. Eat fat to lower body fat. Eat fat to lower bad fat, the sdLDL. Eat fat to raise 'happy' good HDL cholesterol. Hhhhmmm... provocative? Our Paleo experiences and the medical literature will tell us.
o Paradoxical Decrease in HDL-Cholesterol With Statin and Fenofibrate Combo: S E V E N Case Reports (medscape.com)

o Castelli WP, et al. High density lipoprotein as a protective factor against coronary heart disease. The Framingham Study. Am J Med. 1977 May;62(5):707–714.

o Castelli WP, et al.
High-density lipoprotein cholesterol and cardiovascular disease. Four prospective American studies. Circulation. 1989 Jan;79(1):8-15.

----> If you'd like to amuse yourself and see how cardio-stat-idiots attempt to debate themselves out of the above clinical findings, read
THIS. "We found no significant association of change in HDL cholesterol with the log risk ratio in any model after adjustment for changes in LDL cholesterol." wtf? Note their funding... 'unrestricted grant from... Pfizer.'




Paleo Maximizes/Magnifies HDLs

Below are my Paleo peeps who have ROCKIN' ghetto-FAB lipoproteins with Paleo (or semi-Paleo) (units are mg/dl):
Mr. Richard Nikoley, the King:
TC 223 (6/2008: 219)
TG
(57)HDL 133 (106)Real LDL 66
Calc LDL
(104)Mr. Stephan Guyenet (almost-Paleo)
TC 252
TG 49
HDL 111
Real LDL (n/a)
Calc LDL 131 (wrong, but who cares)


Mr. Scott Miller (BF 9% -- nukem, dude, awesome! Lives the ultimate Paleo expanded lifespan plan...lots of coconut oil/70% dark chocolate, some HIIT 3 min/wk that mimics evo-behavior/hunting...zen-like martial arts. He smokes out his friends on 3hr-vigorous mountain bike rides w/minimal effort.)
TC 223
TG 51
HDL 98 (baseline: 38-ish and BF 26%)
Real LDL (n/a)
Calc LDL 125
Lp(a) 2
Mrs. Anna (Against the Grain GRRRLL! )
TC 230 (2007, still transitioning to sat fat/grain-free)
TG 59
HDL 72 (from 60's)
Calc LDL 146
Ms. Anne (Paleo and grain-free)
TC 255
TG 36
HDL 93
Real LDL (n/a)
Calc LDL 154
Mr. Jimmy Moore
Diet: La-Vida-low carb/70%-high-fat
Small-LDL: nearly big PHAT zero on NMR
Large-LDL: ALL per interview with Dr. Davis
Family hx of premature CAD:
YES
EBT score: wish I knew... wanna wager 'zero'? Bummer, said I didn't gamble... right? *ha*

My Labs:
6/2009 (on coconut oil, Paleo, [25OHD]=50 ng/ml)
TC 249
TG 68
HDL 105
Real LDL 125
Calc LDL 130 (wrong by 4% but, again, who's counting)
Lp(a) 2


12/2008 (Paleo/Xfit+15#muscle, [25OHD]=60 ng/ml)
TC 229
TG 82
HDL 89
Calc LDL 124

2/2008 ([25OHD]=80 ng/ml; started X-fit)
TC 190
TG 37
HDL 84
Calc LDL 99

10/2007 (vit D deficient [25OHD]=20 ng/ml)
TC 170
TG 51
HDL 71Calc LDL 90





TYP Hall Of Fame (Statins Optional)

Many others have HDLs to provoke tremendous envy at the TYP forum:

Mr. 'O' (brilliant brain who understands HORMONES, like the powerful hormonal effects of Sat Fat w/the line 'the AHA low fat diet...will kill your HDL...and eventually kill you as well!' *haa* HDL 65 w/niacin IR 1g/d, 6g/d EPA DHA and small amounts of coconut oil; NO STATINS)

Mr. 'D' (EBT regression 5% w/in only 8mos by adding 1-3 Tbs virgin coconut oil, 4 cage-free eggs/d, niacin 1g/day; Large-HDL tripled from 3.2 to 9 umol/L; ABSOLUTELY NO STATINS)

Mr. 'LindyBill' (EBT regression 33.6% in one year and 21% HDL increase from 38 to 46 mg/dl with major weight loss of several inches off the abdomen which accounts for 5-7% Body Fat recomposition (eg, utilization of stored 25-30# Sat Fat) via walking/ball-rm-dancing/ swimming daily and low carb diet; stopped simva 20/d a while ago due to aches but no updated labs; READ, NO STATINS)

Mr. 'H' in the UK (EBT regression 30.2% in one year by walking 1hr per day fast, 3 g/d EPA DHA, niacin 1.5/d, vitamin D, burning 2.5 stone (=5 kgs or 10#) *saturated fatty acids* off the body, Wt Watchers but unlimited (I read: high fat) treats on holiday, high dose vitamin 'O' and... btw... NO HINT OF STATINS)

Dr. 'K' (HDL 68 Feb but probably higher now; reduction in 100% sd-LDL to only 11% by eating COCONUTS and high sat fat, eggs-n-butter, steak, krill-omelets, gamey duck; 9.0 g/d EPA+DHA doesn't hurt for 100% sucky-sd-LDL-baselines...STATIN-FREE)

Mr.&Mrs. 'A' (low carb, high sat fat -- dramatic reductions in Lp(a) by 38%, raising Large-HDL 11 to 22.4 umol/L, raising HDL 63 to 78 mg/dl, and lowering sd-LDL... STATIN-FREE)

Mr. 'C' (Italian Ferrari w/HDL incr from 50 to 79 and now 'zero' Small-LDL (on VAP; on NMR 3.7% LDL-IVb)! Regressive HDL2b from 10 to 43% or 34 mg/dl... Twenty pound body fat loss... yeah btw NO STATIN and SloNiacin 1 g/d, 8 g/d EPA+DHA, krill oil, kelp...low carb, mod Sat Fat, unlimited vegetables, unlimited EVOO, eggs (organic free range plus omega 3), cheese, avocados, red wine, coconut milk (for smoothie), no or limited fruit, cinnamon,unsweetened natural alkaline free cocoa powder; meditation; IF irregular/ unpredictable cycle; lost 20# BF13%)

Mrs. 'M' (HDL=92 mg/dl and teaches me much about omega-3, bless ur heart...STATIN-FREE? undoubtedly!!! on virgin coconut oil + niacin 500mg/d which also dropped sd-LDL despite major hormone imbalances)

Mr. 'P' petroleum engineer ('Unrestricted fats', low carb, Lp(a) reduction of 80% from 70 to 14 mg/dl; niacin 1.5g/am, dhea, 3 g/d EPA DHA, Pauling protocol (L P C), and low dose Crestor)

Mr. 'PBG' (HDL 71 mg/dl, Lp(a) reduced 76% from 83 to 20 mg/dl; sd-LDL reduced to 23% from 56%; statin-free of course)

Mr. 'J' (27# wt loss! on low carb; HDL 61 from 43 mg/dl in a few mos! 42% HDL increase after being statin-free several wks prior to lab testing)

Mr. 'N' (semi-off-not-really-wheat/ carbs, 'mod Sat Fat/pufa' diet; semi-fasts 'perpetually hungry' long 15-20 days every 2mos; 66# wt loss; Lp(a) dropped 85% from 123 to 18 mg/dl; HDL 49 mg/dl who admits when he takes 'lipitor-10mg/d-free holidays' his energy/ mood/ brain brighten)

Dr. 'R' for regression (young endurance triathlete; HDL incr from undetectable b/c TGs 400s to HDL 64 mg/dl; with a low carb Paleo diet with 6kg wt loss and imminst.org antioxidants; simva reduced from 40mg/d to 20mg/d w/the plan to stop after 3mos d/t leg heaviness; I hypothesize astronomical improvements in Lp(a) and EBT but no baselines to report)

Mr. 'R' (elite athlete stud HDL2b 35% and HDLs 115 mg/dl ~200% increase from 60's wow with lower carb etc...mmmm... (still low sat fat) no further comments at this time)

Mr. 'CP' (you ROCK!! HDL 71 from 57 mg/dl and definitely statin-less; 33% sd-LDL% after remarkable 67% drop previous baseline after only 3 mos...how? 'more butter, more eggs, more meat...' despite a lotta back pain)

Mr. 'H' (my favorite hunter and tracker in PA -- 200% increase to HDL 76 from lipitor-low-31 to 40 mg/dl with a Paleo, low carb diet; HEEYYGGE 94.9% sdLDL reduction to nothing 3.4% for sdLDL% that resembles centenarian phenotypes consume ...statin-free? bummer no but low dose and no longer LDL-suppression from effects lipitor 10-20/d or previous low fat diet as evidenced by how the LDLs bounced up from 48 to now. . . PHAT fluffy . . . 90)

And...many others my ADHD memory fails to recall!





Diet?

They all eat a Paleo, semi-Paleo, or Paleo+dairy (eg,
Protein Power) or some version of these.

With no fear of fats.

Esp some Sat Fats and Cholesterol (egg yolks).

And oh by the way mainly statin-free.

Esp in the cases with the grossest, most spectacular lipoprotein outcomes (high HDL, low sd-LDL%, lower Lp(a)).




@The Heart of Darkness Dot Org

At a
cardiologist forum where I used to pimp TYP/lurk (when I'm thoroughly bored and want to entertain myself with the latest, greatest thoughts of cardio-geniuses), some silly physicians attempted to persuade Mr. Carey (see below) with FH (familial hypercholesterolemia - high LDLs, low HDLs) to give up Paleo/ meat/ no-grains/ no-legumes and adopt the heart-healthy whole-grains WHOLE-DISEASE Mediterrean diet and... reconsider re-statinating himself . . . *wicked laugh*:
"Mediterranean diet was not enough for me. As an FH with a TC of 340, I followed the Mediterranean diet approach (high fiber vegan + salmon +sardines) for over 12 years, while I was on 40mg Pravastatin (TC= 220, HDL = 35, LDL = 130), but after severe plantar fasciitis and muscle wasting set in from the Prav. (even on a dosage reduction to 2mg from 40mg), I stopped rx and tested all the other statins and more without success.

The Paleo diet has changed my ability to metabolize fats, reduced my blood glucose levels, and dramatically increased my HDLs (84). On the same daily running and biking regimen, my body fat % dropped from 15.5% to 8% during the last 6 months. I eat huge quantities of non-cereal, non-grain foods all day and continue to lose weight while feeling far more energetic. As an added benefit, at the age of 44, I recently ran a road race at a pace I have not been able to match since I was on the high school track team.
I loved to eat legumes and healthy grains, but I have seen such a dramatic improvement that I will never go back."

His lipoprotein results with Paleo:

"Paleo diet + exercise + psyllium TRIPLED my HDL to 84. I am a slim FH patient who tried and failed to raise my HDL levels above 40 using a low-fat vegetarian, high exercise lifestyle (My LDL was 240). I could not tolerate ANY statin or Welchol. Now, I eat only lean meat, vegetables, fruits and raw nuts while avoiding all sugar, cereals, grains and legumes. With my unchanged intense exercise regimen, I have lost 10 pounds over 6 months, yet grown stronger and faster. I have reduced my LDLs to 202, while raising my HDLs to 84 from as low as 35.
At 44, I feel like I have turned the clock back st least a decade. "


A M E N brother!

42 comments:

Richard Nikoley said...

I Am The King!

:) laf

You're a riot, dear.

Dr. B G said...

*haa ah*

Yes, you rule the Paleo universe...!!

Hey lovely new HOT pictures. So when is your next Paleo pool party at your kingdom?

Anonymous said...

G,

Can you give more info on how Taurine might help raise HDLs?

Also, what is your opinion on the supplementation of NKO Krill oil for helping raise HDLs? Here is a link from NKOs website on a study with results that seem too good to be true:

http://krilloil.org/images/documents/en/clinical_studies/Article%20hyperlipidemia.pdf

Thanking you in advance.

John

P.S. You might have to manually paste in all 3 segments of the above link into your browser to make it work.

Scott Miller said...

Nice write-up! Glad to be among this amazing group.

I have never taken a statin and never will. In fact, I never take any drugs except the occasional Advil or Aleve, for the occasional work-stress headache.

Have been sick twice in 8 years. Never tired during the day. Just turned 48 yesterday, and spend three hours mountain biking today, leading a group half my age who I had to keep slowing down for. haha

It's just impossible to convince most people that grains are bad and animal meats/fats are good.

But, I have a following of about 25 people in the game industry who have switched to this diet, and ALL have lost significant bodyfat, do not have lulls in energy during the day, and do not have to snack constantly to fight off hunger.

Stephan Guyenet said...

G,

Ha, thanks for the recognition. It looks like your HDL is about to zoom past mine!

I'm really interested by the FH fellow you described. FH is too common to have been so deadly back in paleo times. That leads me to believe that FH patients are simply hypersensitive to the effects of the industrial diet. What do you think?

Dr. B G said...

Scott,

Keep up the strong work!

I think you know how to reverse heart dz more than 99.9% of the cardiologists out there. (other than Dr. Davis of course!)

Please let me know your NMR later... you ought to post that at you know where forum -- but I betcha most of the cardio idiots won't even know how to translate the subparticles *guffaw*. Or they will blame it on your genetics *hummmph*

-G

Dr. B G said...

Hi John,

Actually the pasting worked great!

I love that study!
NKO Krill Oil Study 0.5g/day to 3 g/day

Even though they misrepresent the benefits of omega-3 fish oil, many valid points can be taken from there study.

NKO Krill Oil Study 0.5g/day to 3 g/day

(The fish oil they compare is 300mg x3 = 900 mg EPA DHA which is like a baby dose -- yes even toddlers and children can be supplemented on more than this amount! 1 tsp lemon Carlson's high potency Fish Oil!! Fish oil does raise HDLs, specifically HDL2 200-300%, the regression particle, and more importantly, fish oil lowers dense HDL3 and sd-LDL).

I could have probably achieved the same results, eh? HDLs of 103-105 mg/dl if I took krill oil! Which costs more than a Peets coffee triple espresso...DAILY. Do you take any? When I feel like I take a handful 1-2x per month.

This study noticed a significant drop in blood glucoses (so does high dose fish oil) -- I've observed the same trend.

What the study didn't mention or evaluate was blood pressure. It is unfortunate. They missed a great indication. I've also noted a wonderful reduction in BPs when people can afford and start this wonderful antioxidant.

Krill oil also lowers Lp(a) -- another trend I've observed which too bad NKO Krill oil can't capitalize on yet -- at least 25% of the population carriers some degree of this toxic plaque accelerant.

Taurine -- it's awesome stuff. What have you read so far? The literature is sparse. I've listed a few articles below.

It's a sulfur containing amino acid with broad spectrum effects on a variety of systems: sympathetic nervous tone, peripheral nervous system, central GABA-receptors, immune system, insulin resistance, vasculature system, AND...the masculature system.

Yeah -- it raises lean muscle mass! Personally I seem to hypertrophy at a normal rate so actually I haven't noticed much changes. Then again I don't take it daily either! It is found in rare cooked meat (heat labile) and seafood.

I don't understand the mechanism entirely but the HDL raising properties appear to be assoc with activation of bile salts which are normally made in the gall bladder. LPL, apoAI and upregulation of LDL-receptors may be controlled by bile acids (via LXR PXR nuclear receptors, etc). Many humans lack taurine for a variety of reasons:
--dietary insufficiency
--internal overutilization during hypothyroidism, essential hypertension, insulin resistance, diabetes, stress, etc
--gallbladder dysfunction (again, a wheat/gluten damage related issue)

In the n-3 pufa study below, omega-3 raised HDLs and combined with taurine the HDL-increase was 6X higher.

So... eat your fish! Rare! MMmmm... s a s h i m i ...

Hope that helps!
-G

Dr. B G said...

Taurine Studies:

Seafood diets: hypolipidemic and antiatherogenic effects of taurine and n-3 fatty acids. Elvevoll EO, et al. Atherosclerosis. 2008 Oct;200(2):396-402.

Beneficial effects of taurine on serum lipids in overweight or obese non-diabetic subjects. Zhang M, Bi LF, Fang JH, Su XL, Da GL, Kuwamori T, Kagamimori S. Amino Acids. 2004 Jun;26(3):267-71.

[Taurine is a possible anti-atherosclerotic agent] Ito T, Azuma J. Nippon Yakurigaku Zasshi. 2004 May;123(5):311-7.

High-dose taurine supplementation increases serum paraoxonase and arylesterase activities in experimental hypothyroidism. Dirican M, Taş S, Sarandöl E. Clin Exp Pharmacol Physiol. 2007 Sep;34(9):833-7.

Improved suppression by dietary taurine of the fecal excretion of bile acids from hypothyroid rats. Mochizuki H, Takido J, Yokogoshi H. Biosci Biotechnol Biochem. 1999 Apr;63(4):753-5.

Decrease of urinary taurine in essential hypertension. Kohashi N, Katori R. Jpn Heart J. 1983 Jan;24(1):91-102.

Effects of sulphur amino acids on the development of hypertension and atherosclerosis in stroke-prone spontaneously hypertensive rats. Horie R, Yamori Y, Nara Y, Sawamura M, Mano M. J Hypertens Suppl. 1987 Dec;5(5):S223-5.

Ken said...

cardio-geniuses (silly physicians) are quite keen on Vitamin D.

Makes you wonder. Mad dogs and ....

Kiwi said...

Thanks for posting all this amazing info.

Any of the peeps you mentioned who dropped statins come off other meds too e.g. beta-blockers, ace inhibitors?


Thanks

PS: Why has your D gone down?

Dr. B G said...

Kiwi,

Many at TYP after 3-6 mos (or even sooner) start dose-reduction or eliminating certain medications -- the BP ones are the first ones to go. Apparently BP responds very well to Paleo (remember the UCSF H-G study that came out in Feb? I'll be reviewing it later... well, s o m e d a y *ah*).

No BP med is mandatory if the vascular endothelium and systemic state of inflammation are optimized in function. Yes, it takes time for 'regeneration' but it does eventually happen.

No the only exceptions are those whose hearts are already damaged -- takes quite a bit longer but it still happens. Taurine, protein, fat, omega-3s, VLCDs and hormonal-optimization (thyroid, vit D, estrogen, testost, DHEA, etc) all reverse heart failure.
--diastolic dysfunction
--systolic heart failure

These indivs are often taking Lasix or other strong diuretic. They cannot stop these until the above are met and edema controlled w/o drugs. Obviously all the TYP lifestyle changes and supplements ALL ACE-inhibitors and diuretic-like effects. Mild of course, but synergistically potent together.

OK -- The vit D dropped coz I'm lame. I was too Paleo-random and thought I was getting enough Cali rays when I go running in the afternoons. Wrong. Also I consumed a bunch of PUFAs... had wt gain *urrgh* and that may have somehow affected the conc too. I dunno... But I have greatly upped the dose -- feel more wonderful, wt is nearly off and the brief bit of asthma/lung tightness is gone again. :)

You have very sharp eyes, my dear!

Kiwi -- got any great labs/HDLs (or 6-pak abs) you wanna share?

-G

Dr. B G said...

Stephan,

You are not only a neurology expert and nutrition genius, but also a brilliant interpreter of all the cardiology data and landmark trials! Is there anything you can't do??

In truth, it was your HDLs that first inspired me to look more critically at my own lifestyles and food. The wonderful HDLs that you display don't even have the benefits of estrogen! And neither does Richard! *rrgh* Now I'm unwillingly subjecting myself to COLD SHOWERS. *haa*

The FH gentleman is interesting. I agree -- like Lp(a) -- I think these phenotypes in fact are characteristic of the best warriors among the human race. African Americans also exhibit high Lp(a) (not Trigs I believe) but their Lp(a) is 'symmetrical' which appears to render them benign.

My few pts with FH (and Lp(a)) tend to be good athletes when committed, mentally exceptionally sharp and definitely survivors. The trait may be a Paleo advantage but I think you are right on. In neolithic times the diet may hinder their lifespan due an inherent hypersensitivity to industrial diets. According to the Am Academy of Endocrinology guidelines for dyslipidemia treatment HERE, FH actually is not necessarily associated with premature events. My observations are the same. When I ask the FH patients I have if any relatives or parents had early strokes or heart attacks the answer is invariably no. Hopefully it won't affect their generation. However, high Trigs in FH are assoc with pancreatitis, but again, this is just yet another gluten-related enteropathy-kinda thing. Right?

You deserve BIG KUDUS you brilliant BAD*SS blogger-BOY!!

-G

Anonymous said...

G,

Thanks for the links on Taurine.

In answer to your question, I haven't tried Krill as I too feel it's pretty costly. If however, I knew it could raise my HDL 43% - 59% like in the study, I would definitely bite the bullet and add some to my supplement regimen as I have low HDLs in addition to FHC.

JohnM

Dr. B G said...

JohnM,

Well, a good thing about krill oil (and the above NKO trial showed it) is that amazingly their results are 'durable' as Dr. Davis frequently discusses certain benefits. Meaning, after discontinuing or dose-reduction many of the benefits are maintained. YEAHHH! He finds the durable benefits in fact with niacin -- stopping often maintains some of the HDL and sd-LDL improvements. He advises even sometimes to take 'niacin holidays' when the HDLs or sd-LDL no longer budge.

Fish oil? We advise both krill AND fish oil b/c they have dissimiliar mechanisms and benefits. I believe they work synergistically meaning they can result in MORE outcomes when combined, compared to adding singular effects.

Good luck pls let me know what works for your FHC. I'm sure you are on the right TRACK. Pls don't hesitate to ask ? later!

-G

Neonomide said...

Dr. B G said:

"No the only exceptions are those whose hearts are already damaged -- takes quite a bit longer but it still happens. Taurine, protein, fat, omega-3s, VLCDs and hormonal-optimization (thyroid, vit D, estrogen, testost, DHEA, etc) all reverse heart failure.
--diastolic dysfunction
--systolic heart failure"



Thanks for Taurine info - it's greatly appreciated (I may tell you later why especially so).

It seems that a dipeptide of amino acids beta-alanine & histidine called CARNOSINE may also help in heart failure conditions:


# O'Dowd JJ, Robins DJ, Miller DJ. Detection, characterisation, and quantification of carnosine and other histidyl derivatives in cardiac and skeletal muscle. Biochim Biophys Acta. 1988;967(2):241–9
# ↑ Zaloga GP, Roberts PR, Black KW. et al. Carnosine is a novel peptide modulator of intracellular calcium and contractility in cardiac cells. Am J Physiol. 1997;272(1 Pt 2):H462-8
# ↑ Roberts PR, Zaloga GP. Cardiovascular effects of carnosine. Biochemistry (Mosc). 2000 Jul;65(7):856–61. Review
# ↑ Zaloga GP, Siddiqui RA. Biologically active dietary peptides. Mini Rev Med Chem. 2004;4(8):815–21
# ↑ Bharadwaj LA, Davies GF, Xavier IJ, Ovsenek N. L-carnosine and verapamil inhibit hypoxia-induced expression of hypoxia inducible factor (HIF-1 alpha) in H9c2 cardiomyoblasts. Pharmacol Res. 2002;45(3):175–181
# ↑ Gamez Navarro HA. Calcio y enfermedades cardiovascular. Med Crit Venez 2000;15:17–23
# ↑ An J, Stadnicka A, Kwok WM, Bosnjak ZJ. Contribution of reactive oxygen species to isoflurane-induced sensitization of cardiac sarcolemmal adenosine triphosphate-sensitive potassium channel to pinacidil. Anesthesiology. 2004;100(3):575–80


Carnosine is found esp in chicken breast and deep sea mammals. It helps the latter to breath DEEEEEEEP and dive for tens of minutes, easily. Protects nerve cells as well and raises muscles' anaerobic threshold. Pure hotness.

Oh and carn-rising lowers high blood pressure by making nitric oxide...

# Steinberg C, Notterman DA. Hemodynamic effects of carcinine in the anesthetized, instrumented, open-chest rat. Crit Care Med. 1996;24(12):2042–5
# ↑ Ririe DG, Roberts PR, Shouse MN, Zaloga GP. Vasodilatory actions of the dietary peptide carnosine. Nutrition 2000;16(3):168–72
# ↑ Niijima A, Okui T, Matsumura Y, Yamano T, et al.Effects of L-carnosine on renal sympathetic nerve activity and DOCA-salt hypertension in rats. Auton Neurosci. 2002;97(2):99–102
# ↑ Tanida M, Niijima A, Fukuda Y, et al. Dose-dependent effects of L-carnosine on the renal sympathetic nerve and blood pressure in urethane-anesthetized rats. Am J Physiol Regul Integr Comp Physiol. 2005;288: R447-R455


... cont...

Neonomide said...

And Carn may inhibit oxidation of cholesterol, lp-a and triglycerides...

# Lee YT, Hsu CC, Lin MH, et al. Histidine and carnosine delay diabetic deterioration in mice and protect human low density lipoprotein against oxidation and glycation. European Journal of Pharmacology 2005;513(1–2):145–50
# ↑ Rashid I, van Reyk DM, Davies MJ. Carnosine and its constituents inhibit glycation of low-density lipoproteins that promotes foam cell formation in vitro. FEBS Lett. 2007;581(5):1067–70


Finally, muscle (heart is a muscle right?) carnosine levels may be more effectively raised by ingesting beta-alanine alone, as it seems to be the "bottle-neck" component of carnosine formation in humans. This study is one of my fave ones:

http://www.jissn.com/content/5/1/21


Plus TONS of great effects in brain, like Alzheimer prevention, oxygen preserving, telomere damage reduction and AGE-product inhibition:

# Jackson MC, Lenney JF. The distribution of carnosine and related dipeptides in rat and human tissues. Inflamm Res 1996, 45(3): 132–5
# ↑ Kawahara M, Konoha K, Nagata T, Sadakane Y. Protective substances against zinc-induced neuronal death after ischemia: carnosine as a target for drug of vascular type of dementia. Recent Patents CNS Drug Discov. 2007;2(2):145-9 Free Full Text
# ↑ Yuneva MO, Bulygina ER, Gallant SC et al. Effect of carnosine on age- induced changes in senescence-accelerated mice. J Anti-Aging Medicine, 2: 1999, 337–342
# ↑ Gallant S, Kukley M, Stvolinsky S et al. Effect of carnosine on rats under experimental brain ischemia. Tohoku J Exp Med. 2000 Jun;191(2):85–99
# ↑ Fu Q, Dai H, Hu W, et al. Carnosine Protects Against Abeta42-induced Neurotoxicity in Differentiated Rat PC12 Cells. Cell Mol Neurobiol. 2008 Feb;28(2):307-16 Abstract
# ↑ Boldyrev A, Koudinov A, Berezov T, Carpenter DO. Amyloid-beta induced cell death is independent of free radicals. J Alzheimer´s Disease 2004;6(6):633-8 PubMed
# ↑ Nicoletti VG, Santoro AM, Grasso G et al. Carnosine interaction with nitric oxide and astroglial cell protection. Journal of Neuroscience Research 2007;85(10) 2239-45 Abstract
# ↑ Hipkiss AR. Could Carnosine or Related Structures Suppress Alzheimer's Disease? Journal of Alzheimer´s Disease. 2007(11(2)229-240 Abstract


Sorry for possible spelling errors, I'm from Finland (and absolutely LOVE your blog)! 8-)

Dr. B G said...

Neonomide,

I started reading on carnosine (and L-carnitine) recently. Do you think organ meats (grassfed) contain carnosine too? I wasn't aware of the alanine precursor.

You've got links that are pure HOTNESS, as are you I'm sure *wink*.

Thank you for visiting!

-G

Neonomide said...

Cheers! You are definitely HOT wearing your tri Zoot suit! :)

Here in Finland, some advanced (well read) doctors have talked about the value of carnosine (and B1-benfotiamine) in diabetes for years.

My interest in carnosine began years ago for some information it may help my Crohn's disease (EPA/DHA ja esp Vit D however did!!!). Not much to be said for that though. During the process and taking carn I noticed that my muscles got sore less often when jogging, so I started to read more about it.

Oh, here is a quite good reference list about carn, before I forget:

http://www.biovita.fi/suomi/terveyssivut/karnosiini_kirjallisuus.html)


Soon I realized that beta-alanine does raise muscle carnosine levels FAR more and more cheaply than carn and so I started to dig it a bit more. It seems that beta-alanine raises muscle carn most in the range of 3 to 6 grams per day (in the period of 3 months) and does it much quicker when took with some fast carbs or glucose (like creatine should be taken).
(sorry for not providing any BA refs now, I simply have forgotten :)

There has been some conversation whether histidine (the other part of the combo) should or should not be supplemented with BA or not in some populations such as vegetarian or elderly people, who may not be getting enough histidine for carnosine synthesis.

Neonomide said...

Dr. B G said...

"I started reading on carnosine (and L-carnitine) recently. Do you think organ meats (grassfed) contain carnosine too? I wasn't aware of the alanine precursor."


Yes, organ meats contain carnosine too, although (I think) in smaller quantities. Except liver. Carn was originally found in skeletal muscle by russians, but was later found from internal organs like liver and (especially) the brain too. I don't know much about the concentrations though in different organs, or the relevance of animals being pastured or not. In muscle tissue, carnosine concentrations are about 125 mg per 100 grams, although it's bioavailability is only about 15%, compared to much higher rate from quality supplements. So it may be better to get carnosine through supplements as well, if seen needed.

Here are some studies I haven't fully read (yet) on carn and that cover some the themes above:

# [Kohen R, Yamamoto Y, Cundy KC, Ames BN. Antioxidant activity of carnosine, homocarnosine, and anserine present in muscle and brain. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 1988 May; 85(9): 3175–3179 Free Full Text
# ↑ Abe H. Role of Histidine-Related Compounds as Intracellular Proton Buffering Constituents in Vertebrate Muscle. Biochemistry (Mosc) 2000;65:7
# ↑ Park YJ, Volpe SL, Decker EA. Quantitation of Carnosine in Humans Plasma after Dietary Consumption of Beef. J Agric Food Chem. 2005 Jun 15;53(12):4736–4739


I think that it's worth noting that humans seem to be the ONLY species that can break carnosine down to aminos before synthetizing them back to carnosine form. Other animals simply take carn "as it is", while humans break it down in blood and then synthetize it again in tissues (via carn synthetase enzyme). Pretty cool, eh?

So this makes the physiology of carnosine (& beta-alanine) quite a bit more difficult compared to [other] animals. Researhers like Mark Tallon have been rather cautious about considering BA:s effects equal to carn in other tissues than muscles. These effects simply have not been reviewed, yet.

I for one can say that besides epa/dha and loooovely Vit D ( it alone CURED my Crohn !!! =), BA seems to have boosted my memory, motivation and mental clarity. Far more than carn alone. Most I know have said similar things as well.

As a sport supplement, BA:s superiority to carn has no contest. It seems to me (and many others) that BA is the BEST legal ergogenic aid since creatine and caffeine. It (by making more carn) has GREAT antioxidant effects, it generates "pump" by being essential compound in nitric oxide synthetase AND buffers muscle pH like no tomorrow. Unlike creatine, it works in most kinds of athletes and may be the "hidden" component why meat products rock in sports.

Because of these muscle_and_fitness_transcending_qualities I really think BA should be looked into when talking about heart problems like Insufficientia cordis caused some form of muscle weakness. (if this is the right term?)

Yet the money seems to be the main problem as always with supplements without a patent. Carn/BA already seems to be just as effective as verapamil in heart muscle problems:

Bharadwaj LA, Davies GF, Xavier IJ, Ovsenek N. L-carnosine and verapamil inhibit hypoxia-induced expression of hypoxia inducible factor (HIF-1 alpha) in H9c2 cardiomyoblasts. Pharmacol Res. 2002;45(3):175–181


We're coming slowly to the taurine point, sorry for keeping you waiting. ;-)

Neonomide said...

Sorry to flood a bit, but I'm a bit thrilled to see pharmacology people to really dig into food and food supplements. They usually do not. That's why I got hooked into your blog in the first place. Heart Scan Blog by Davies and Animal Pharm are my fave blogs right now! Food can be FUN! :)

Oh yes the taurine drama. Mark Tallon, who did a thesis on carns effects in muscles, actually recommends supplementing taurine while taking (actually cycling) beta-alanine. :-)

http://www.brinkzone.com/blog/bodybuilding/post/is-beta-alanine-safe/


Other possible problems about BA supplementation are the same as with carn. Both seem to mess up a bit of zinc/copper metabolism because of their formidable free metal ion chelating effects. This however is more of a brain issue. Adding to this, it's worth noting that carn removes mercury, cadmium and lead from tissues like brains and liver MORE effectively than alpha lipoic acid - which dentists use when removing mercury patches from teeth! I can dig some references, if these seem a bit too much to believe.

Hope this information is useful in any way. Cheers and keep up the GREAT work!

Dr. B G said...

Neonomide...

You were keeping me waiting on the taurine climax... *haa*

That kinda makes sense that b-ala supplemention (high extra-normal doses) would deplete out taurine. This is apparently the case for many nutrients -- like vitamin D (sunshine) and magnesium, zinc, calcium. Typically these would be in food in combo (eg, meat, seafood, diary, etc) and consumed in the daytime (high sunshine/UVB). Taurine and carnosine should be found together in food sources, but only if consumed rare or raw (dairy, meat, seafood, etc), correct?

You mentioned a Mark Tallon PhD link and he stated that carnosine was found abundantly in the brain and muscle of sprinting and deep diving animals. That is SO cool. Don't you think??? You work out, right? I have found that will intense interval training (specifically sprinting, row-sprints, swim-sprints, and pretty much anything Crossfit/ Tabata and high hypoxia thresholds are met, i.e. I AM TOTALLY B-R-E-A-T-H-L-E-S-S...) that I have over the last 1-2yrs gotten less and less sore. And...Immediately after starting fish oil I noticed rare soreness after workouts. Now... after a long 1-2 hr event like a sprint tri or half-marathon, I literally experience no soreness at all. The lactic acid I believe is ENTIRELY recyled or quenched... by carnosine ?!?!? What is your experience with lactic acid?

Perhaps we get better and better, and more efficient at synthesizing Carnosine from dietary BCAA? Or from b-ala then to Carnosine at demand?

You have the most provocative RESOURCES... and most awesome info on b-ala and carnosine! However, the MOST compelling story I found is your recovery from Crohn's dz with Carnosine, vitamin D and fish oil. That is INCREDIBLE! I really appreciate you taking the time to share your experience and insights!!

Everything is very helpful to me that you have provided. I'm actually reading up on chelation protocols (like sauna, alpha-lipoic acid, sweating, Dr. Mark Hyman MD's Ultrawellness protocol, etc). Thank you so MUCH for bringing up the vast importance of carnosine, zn/cu relationship and heart benefits. The L-histidine effect is cool too. It appears to aid libido (men and women)... now I know WHY. *haa*


So... going primal/paleo and eating MEAT/SEAFOOD is the WAY TO GO (esp from sprinting game like rabbits, deer, elk, grassfed dairy/eggs, and diving mammals like whale blubber/meat what trad'l ancient Inuit consumed, etc).

ja?

-G

Neonomide said...

Dr. B G said...

"Taurine and carnosine should be found together in food sources, but only if consumed rare or raw (dairy, meat, seafood, etc), correct?"


Yes indeed! Thanks for D3/magn info in your blog by the way - Cannell at Vit D Council has talked about it but you really made it sound _essential_ to get magn into the play with D3. :)


"You mentioned a Mark Tallon PhD link and he stated that carnosine was found abundantly in the brain and muscle of sprinting and deep diving animals. That is SO cool. Don't you think???"


Yea, it's cool as cucumber! There exists an analogue called homocarnosine which resides in 100-fold concentrations in brain tissue compared to carn. Homocarnosine in turn increases GABA levels which in turn increases pain threshold, reduces feelings of panic, anxiety, depression and such:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11386984&dopt=Abstract


When taking carn/BA, my psych profile definitely turned more calm from my neurotic what_should_I_do_or_eat kind of self (Crohn). Then again, I also took EPA/DHA and later changed it to E-EPA (u know, a pimped, ethyl-estered version of EPA which has been adopted in psychiatry instead of mere DHA or EPA/DHA-combo) which I still take. It's been quite a long journey, really.

BA really has felt like beefed up carn in every way for me. The only side effect with BA has been the niacin like prickling - called parathesia - which is caused by beta-alanine binding to nerve receptors, activating them and causing them to discharge/fire. It still feels nowhere near as bad as taking occasional 1 gram of niacin for fix. ;)

Carn itself seems to be an neurotransmitter (!) and/or helps other transmitters to work and protects cell membranes (Margolis 1974, Hardin ja Margolis 1976, Marchis ym. 2000, Chez ym. 2003). Carn in brain resides especially in glia cells, hippocampus, neuritis optica (eye nerves) and bulbus olfactorius (Hipkiss 2004, 2005). It seems that people may smell odors better when taking/getting carnosine (and perhaps BA). Same goes for hearing as well, though I'm not sure about the references yet. I think I started to hear grasshoppers again. Do the inuits hear (and smell) better than we do as well? :)

Neonomide said...

Dr. B G said...

"You work out, right? I have found that will intense interval training (specifically sprinting, row-sprints, swim-sprints, and pretty much anything Crossfit/ Tabata and high hypoxia thresholds are met, i.e. I AM TOTALLY B-R-E-A-T-H-L-E-S-S...) that I have over the last 1-2yrs gotten less and less sore."


I know the feeling. :)
I've jogged for years and done some military training level martial arts (not anymore though) so I sure know what it feels like to get/be breathless. ;)

Beta-alanine seems to work mostly by soaking up hydrogen ions (H+) to prevent low pH levels in muscles (Dunnet 1999 & 2002, Hill 2007), as well as regulation of intra-cellular pH of both oxidative and glycolytic muscle fibers (Damon 2003). Yet carnosine alone seem to only count for up to 30% of the pH buffering capacity of the body. The other substance that effectively buffers pH is _anserine_, which is ANOTHER dipeptide of beta-alanine and 1- methylhistidine (aka beta-alanyl-N-methylhistidine). As you might guess, it happily exists in fast muscle fibers as well. :)

Some nice tidbits about these lovely histidine-based dipeptides here:

http://www.jbc.org/cgi/reprint/126/1/19

http://www.meatscience.org/Pubs/rmcarchv/print/showpdf.asp?vol=m011&page=0161

So it seems that anserine and carnosine are the main compounds responsible for differences in buffering capacity both within and between species AND their relative concentrations differ greatly between the species. I think it's also worth noting that most (esp ergogenic) studies using anserine have been done by comboing it with carn, not beta-alanine. Like these ones:


*Davey C. The significance of carnosine and anserine in striated skeletal muscles." Archives of Biochemistry and Biophysics 1960; 89:303-308.

*Suzuki Y, Nakao T, Maemura H., et al. Carnosine and anserine ingestion enhances contribution of nonbiocarbonate buffering. Med Sci Sport Exerc. 2006;38:334–8.

*Mannion AF, Jakeman PM, Dunnett M et al. Carnosine and anserine concentrations in the quadriceps femoris muscle of healthy humans. Eur J Appl Physiol Occup Physiol. 1992;64(1):47-50.

*Maemura H, Goto K, Yoshioka T, et al. Effects of carnosine and anserine supplementation on relatively high intensity endurance performance. International journal of sport and health science 2006;4:86–94



Speaking about breathing, I must say two things. First, intra-muscular carn content can be raised by training up to 87% (Harris 2005). Endurance training itself has shown to reduce exercise ventilation by 20-30% compared to the group that did not undergo endurance training.

Both training and raising carn in turn raise lactate threshold. Pure carn as a supplement is not very effective in raising lactate threshold, yet BA is - ingestion of beta-alanine for four to eight weeks has been shown to elevate muscle carnosine content by 42%, 47%, 64% and 65% respectively (Pottier 2007, Harris 2006, Hill 2007).

Second thing about breathing is the question about what stimulates the nerves that causes increased ventilation and what stimulates the neurons called chemoreceptors, most importantly the peripheral chemoreceptors? It's the increased blood H+ concentration that directly stimulate these nerves as well as a decrease in pH (which increased H+ contribute to) stimulates them as well!

Oh and what combats/buffers H+ concentrations and slows the decrease in pH......Beta-Alanine via Carnosine. ;)

Beta-Alanine/CARN through buffering H+/pH would cause a decrease in ventilation/breathing which would be most prevalent during endurance exercise. So carn/BA makes breathing e-a-s-i-e-r and usually it makes it easier _quick_. I'm sure that right meat/food does much the same, even thogh it does it a bit slower.

Neonomide said...

So yes INDEED it was love at first sight for me! =)
After running the usual five miles in the forest and expecting feet muscles to be sore and ready for magn/massage treatment as usual the surprise was just incredible. Muscles almost seemed like there happened no training at all - what I felt was only warmth in tendons and joints! Streching and cool-down became a... _pleasure_ *MMMmmmmm* :) :) :)

I just HAVE to tell about one more nice BA study done by Jeffrey Stout et al.: women (aged 19 - 36) got BA slowly titrated up to 6,4 grams per day for 28 days ONLY and the results showed a 14%, 12.5% and 3% increase in ventilatory threshold, PWCFT, and time to exhaustion, respectively. There was no change in the placebo group.

http://www.runfastpromotions.com/pdf/Beta_Alanine_Effect_Ventilatory_Threshold.pdf


Stout commented the study elsewhere: "To any scientist or endurance enthusiast, this change in anaerobic threshold (without training) is shocking. It's the kind of effect that can immediately "create" a better endurance athlete!"

Just the same feeling I had when I got into BA, BCAA, EPA/DHA -mode with my training. :)


Dr B G said:

"And...Immediately after starting fish oil I noticed rare soreness after workouts. Now... after a long 1-2 hr event like a sprint tri or half-marathon, I literally experience no soreness at all. The lactic acid I believe is ENTIRELY recyled or quenched... by carnosine ?!?!? What is your experience with lactic acid?"

Sorry to keep you waiting (again). :)
Basically, my doses of EPA/DHA or E-EPA have always been less than 1500 mg pure content - how much you have used and when you started to notice clear effects?
Carn alone definitely started to work for me, in 400-600 mg range. I also started to eat bird meat at the same time so who knows which it was back then...
BA on the other hand started to work immediately and the dosage was around 1500-3000 mg (in studies dose has been 3,2 - 6,4 g).

So I think there may be some anserine drama behind this BA->carn craze, but it may be too early to tell. I don't think anserine levels have been adequately monitored, which would give proper meat/food a chance. If weight training alone raises carn like better than carn alone - what do they eat...? ;)

Neonomide said...

Dr B G said:

"Perhaps we get better and better, and more efficient at synthesizing Carnosine from dietary BCAA? Or from b-ala then to Carnosine at demand?"


I think it just may be that way. Running *fast bursts* while hunting fast wild game alone raises carn and "the catch" does it as well! Why not so?

There has been some controversy on carns benefits in "chronic cardio" (if you are familiar with the term). Carn tends to be more saturated in fast-twitch muscle fibers and less so in slow ones. But the notion that paleo-people did more of those fast bursts seems more logical, doesn't it?


"I'm actually reading up on chelation protocols (like sauna, alpha-lipoic acid, sweating, Dr. Mark Hyman MD's Ultrawellness protocol, etc)."

You know, BA was has been boosted with alpha-lipoic acid, NAC (glutathione!) and d-alpha-tocopherol for synergism and that combo has been studied as well! Quite a chelating effect, don't you think? :)

I must guess that gamma-tocopherol + trienols, some extra glutathione boosting and Na-R-ALA would be even better combo for some sports, but how much oxidative stress can be "buffered" before some health parameters may actually suffer? Like effect on insulin sensitivity:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FDN/is_2_14/ai_n32175649/


During one study, BA supplementation raised isoprostane levels on bikers as well (though also helping DOMS with BCAA's).

http://www.fasebj.org/cgi/content/meeting_abstract/22/1_MeetingAbstracts/685.1?ck=nck

Neonomide said...

"However, the MOST compelling story I found is your recovery from Crohn's dz with Carnosine, vitamin D and fish oil. That is INCREDIBLE! I really appreciate you taking the time to share your experience and insights!!"


Oh yes, the Crohn. The fun part. :)
Let me tell a bit from where I come. I lost around 55 pounds during my teen years in couple of months due to stomach pain and diarrhea but no diagnosis, until chronic diarrhea kicked in again about 8 years later and my several food allergies/insensitivies got an explanation. Crohn was diagnosed AFTER getting twelwe (12) antibiotic treatments in a row for abscess. Thanks again doctors.

After that, I was on 5-ASA (just a weak plasebo/colon cancer risk-lessener, nothing else and they didn't tell me) and I tried several EPA/DHA products which did some for my symptoms. Over 90% pure EPA ethyl ester was (and is) the best fish oil thing I tried - a dose of 1 300 mg a day always made somewhat a difference. A week off during holiday in Norway and 10 pounds flied away while symptoms came back. Not fun.

Then pretty soon came the ileus (bowel obstruction) and my whole small intestine looked in X-rays like a long string of huge pearls... and I could eat barely NOTHING for months so it was time for cortisone and immunosuppressant azathioprine (welcome the 7-fold lymphoma risk!). Actually, aza worked quite well on inflammation/fistulas, although slowly. Food sensitivities ie sugar, milk, wheat/grains, alcohol, potato and about a million others stayed and my stomach basically was a burping gas station for at last 9 months from there and Crohn symptoms stayed very random from there on. My new obstructions made me fear even more foods than those that I knew would cause symptoms.

Then laste autumn I started reading about D3 and its immunosuppressant effects. For starters I thought "what's going on here" when some were seriously saying you need "insane amounts" of it and others said it still was toxic. So I did "some" homework, like reading ½ an year almost only of D3 (ACJN etc.) and started using it and titrating up the dose slowly along with my E-EPA. And of course talking others about it!

After going above 100 µg threshold in D3 oil form it was clear that I had been fooled like a woodpecker! My thirteen (13) diagnosed food allergies quickly just melted away and I could EAT_FOOD. Actually I could go for almost anything but milk (yea the pasteurized/homogenized version I know) and my symptom list went away by 90-95%. When taking around 200 µg/day I felt I could eat usually more foods than "healthy" persons.
And lots of it! ;)

Perhaps the D3 was not the only player in the picture. I also took melatonin (1 - 3 mg) for sleep (it's only on prescription here) and it also has shown some similar effects like D3. Both seem to inhibit TNF-alpha which is ALSO the main inflammatory cytokine which e-x-p-e-n-s-i-v-e biological monoclonal antibodies for IBD like adalimumab and infliximab affect. How swell? ;)

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=17799595


I also got my high systolic BP down from 145 to 115 in like a... week. My systolic had been up since I was five! And my sleep disorder just faded away (yet I continued melatonin for all I've read about it). Also please check my story's edited (no parlors for me in irl version) version from Cannell's newsletter: :)

http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/newsletter/2009-march.shtml


I live about 63 degrees north here in Finland, so sun is D3 is not really the preferable D3 source outside june/july/august. Average 25(OH)D here in Finland is about 17 ng/ml. ;)

Oh and we have a type II diabetes epidemic here, CHD is among highest in the world, BP is sky-high and people are often on flu, depressed, annoying and strongly advised to eat whole grains all day...

Do you see now why I like Track Your Plaque -paradigm pretty much? ;D

Dr. B G said...

Neo,

Sorry for the delay! Thank you for your patience! We were visiting Idaho, Montana, Wyoming and Yellowstone park.

I have been reading nearly 90% of the links and PDFs (and a couple of vacay sexxxy ROMANCES... yes VERY very techno reading *HAA*).

OK now you have provided all the information and studies for me to get a PhD in Carnosine, anserine and beta-alanine science!! Great many thanxxx for sharing your extensive knowledge and deep DEEP experiences Neonomide!

My fave was the older study. I loved LOVED the 1938 Zapp JA Wilson DW J of Bio Chem article 'Quantitative studies of Carn and anserine in mammalian studies.' Definitely prior to the whole-grain nonsense with current industrial feedlot beef and livestock, eh? What I noted that was so signficant as you have brilliantly pointed out was that FAST TWITCH muscles are permeated and saturated with Carnosine and Anserine. I found this exceptionally the case in the tissues sampled in this study:
--Ox Loin (the filet mignon, the PSOAS muscle)
--Ox Glossus (200s, these guys are great masticators... ummm chewers; low anserine/herbivores)
--Horse gastronemius (largest amount reported 400s, POWERFUL sprinters; low anserine/herbivores)
--Cat gastronemius (200s b/c these guys are great HUNTERS; high anserine too/carnivores)
--Lion gastronemius (low Carn but REALLY high anserine 200s/carnivores)
--Rabbits gastronemius (low Carn but exceptionally high 500s anserine though they are herbivores who eat their own POOP incl sources of fermented B12 and perhaps ??!? fermented amino acids?)

You know I take a bunch of antioxidants (nearly ALL the ones you mentioned Na-R-ALA NAC high dose EPA DHA tocopherol + trienols BCAAs taurine vitamin D) and grassfed beef, but I am now considering the value of b-ala now esp when I need more ventilatory endurance/thresholds and muscle H+/histidine buffering!

WOW. Your experience in discovering all these improvements to reverse Crohn's is still one of the most wonderful stories I've heard of. You are lucky to not have to undergo surgical resection and of course the other common permanent consequences to ileus (bowel obstruction). My brilliant sister has read that the solvents like hexane used in extracting omega-6 refined vegetable oils are HIGHLY associated with Crohn's, ulcerative colitis and other GI conditions. Do you feel that n-3 PUFAs were a trigger for you?

Do you think the military training (food) contributed to any of the secondary triggers for Crohn's? Or were the normal teen lifestyle factors initiating triggers? My teen years weren't great but I did get vast amounts of sunlight playing tennis during the summers in northern Cal which helped a little bit (against the omega-6 corn oil, margarine, wheat, sugar toxicities and indoor living that most teens subject themselves to).

Are you consuming grains and wheat again now currently? If so, how are you tolerating?

OMG I wish I could read your Finnish vit D blog -- obviously you are very articulate, super intelligent, incredibly optimistic. Hopefully your Finnish audience will appreciate ALL the spectacular and truly AWESOME health advice and deeply researched nutritional science information that you are offering to them.

If I try the b-ala I will let you know how my Crossfit and enduro exercise goes!!

G

Dr. B G said...

Additionally! It is interesting that you noticed that Vitamin D 'cured' all the food allergies. One of my best friend had a shrimp anaphylactic reaction requiring a 24/7 epi-pen for emergencies for a brief time when she was vitamin D deficient. Once she started vitamin D supplementation, she never noticed shrimp food sensitivities any longer (yes, she DARED to re-challenge).

No wonder you blog about the wonders of vitamin D!

Neonomide said...

Hi again Dr. B G !

I just came back from southern Turkey where I was in a workcamp, boosting of course my 25(OH)D. UV index 8-9 - hotness! 8-)



Dr B G said:
"WOW. Your experience in discovering all these improvements to reverse Crohn's is still one of the most wonderful stories I've heard of. You are lucky to not have to undergo surgical resection and of course the other common permanent consequences to ileus (bowel obstruction). My brilliant sister has read that the solvents like hexane used in extracting omega-6 refined vegetable oils are HIGHLY associated with Crohn's, ulcerative colitis and other GI conditions. Do you feel that n-3 PUFAs were a trigger for you?"


I must say that my Crohn's was a bit atypical from the start. I always had little stomach pain to worry about but a lot of food sensitivities, discomfort and gas. Vomiting has been very rare as well. My disease also started as a fistulating one (as I had an ano-rectal abscess, which I got those 12 antibiotics for) and then after ileus came those serious bowel obstruction problems. They were random and VERY painful.

Now BOTH of them seem to be past memories, which does give me some extra grudge against gastroenterologists here. At least my colonoscopy time is after two weeks. I'm sure to talk about vit D there! What a chance! ;-)

By the way, since Vit D seems to be so _essential_ to muscles by itself, can it in any case also improve the peristaltis in gastrointestinal tract? I think my constant NEED for fiber (and the fear of a new ileus freaking me out at the same time) in the past has definitely lessened since my D3-journey. No constipation here, almost ever.

Some kind of semi-permanent cell death in my intestinal muscles/tissue along with scar tissue formation MUST have occured since my ileus, so I was really wondering why my system works NOW so well. :-)

As for vegetable oils, that hexane point you make is very interesting!
I think I've succesfully avoided most other n-6 pufa (which I think you meant above) sources other than cold-pressed olive oil, so it's hard to say really. Maybe I should take a chance, like I take with rye bread right now! ;-)

By the way, I just read that sour rye bread (and some other sour grains too) might be OK for some celiacs? I'm sorry for not finding a source for now. May something happen in the souring process that makes gluten to break down? (if so - wow!)

I actually only have eaten oven-dried rye-only bread (with 15% fiber) every now and then. Just for sports and because I haven't been able to do it for years. No (visible) problems here. ;-)

I just got a new book "Gluten Effect" which explains a LOT about how gluten wreaks havoc in human body, so I wonder is there ANY easier way to break down gluten without soaking/fermenting grains for ages?

It seems that everyone, EVERYONE here in Finland thinks bread and porridge are an unofficial religion - even my depressed, chronically insomniac & gastro-problemic girlfriend talks about bread like it's cocaine or something. Or similar to chocolate (yikes!).

Even I need some fixes every now and then - is there any hope for us? ;-)

Here's link for A LOT of gluten info from the authors' of the book I mentioned above:

http://glutendoctors.blogspot.com/

Neonomide said...

Excuse me of using a lot of space - I love to rant. Especially to my idols! ;-)


Dr B G said...

"Do you think the military training (food) contributed to any of the secondary triggers for Crohn's? Or were the normal teen lifestyle factors initiating triggers? My teen years weren't great but I did get vast amounts of sunlight playing tennis during the summers in northern Cal which helped a little bit (against the omega-6 corn oil, margarine, wheat, sugar toxicities and indoor living that most teens subject themselves to)."


Actually, I think that a lot of dietary factors have had a role in triggering my symptoms. Sugar sugar sugar and it's replacements (aspartame triggered them like hell), (esp white) wheat/rye/grains, alcohol and defninitely milk consumption (which I still cannot drink). Yet these ones are mentioned in the official Crohn's info sheets as well.

I still tend to think that the most important trigger may have been Coke Light madness during my teens - one obese girl very near where I grew up did a same and got Crohn's almost at the same age as I did! Scary huh?

On the other hand, I've been wondering if my birth via cesarean section did something, my LONG lactating period, my mother's intestinal bleeding. Who knows for sure? Any ideas for these?

For all I know, Vit D works by changing gene expression in cells and tha't how it seems to downgrade inflammatory cytokines if I'm correct? When and if I get some symptoms they come pretty fast and go quockly away as well. It's very different to past, when one slice of bread or a small bag of candies had me burping for days.

Something crazy seems to have happened in my body and I still don't quite get it.

Dr. B G said...

Hey Neo,

Coke Light! Yikes!

I am in agreement about possible triggers involved with pregnancy, birth and lactation. Dr. Ayers has talked a bit about in utero immune system 'training'. Quite interesting.

-G

Dr. B G said...

Neonomide,

My sister and I are certain that our mother was probably vitamin D deficient (severely as she seemed to have IBS too) and perhaps this affected our health. It appears Finland mothers are likely to be severely deficient in vitamin D as well. Without a lot of dietary sources (fermented CLO, fatty bone marrow, menudo/intestines, etc) and supplementation, this is probably a big deal now.

I don't mind if your rant! It's hard to tell if gluten still causes issues though someone may be symptomatic. Rye in the FUNGEHUT study did not appear to cause the induction of the stress-related genes like potatoes or gluten-containing foods. However I don't know how reliable that study is since whole wheat pasta generated little response as well yet we do know the gluten still causes sensitivity in those gluten-intolerant. I don't know if the oven drying does anything either, to rye?

-G

Neonomide said...

Dr B G said...

"It appears Finland mothers are likely to be severely deficient in vitamin D as well. Without a lot of dietary sources (fermented CLO, fatty bone marrow, menudo/intestines, etc) and supplementation, this is probably a big deal now."


Yes. In Finland, I couldn't find any data about 25(OH)D in pregnant women for now, but it's generally assumed that their levels are less than women have in general. Which means LESS than 37 nmol/l on average - which is horrible indeed.

Pregnant women are also advised not to eat several lake fish species more than 1-2 times a week, which still leaves in some of the best species. Here is the Top Ten (in finnish though):

http://www.fineli.fi/topfoods.php?compid=2271&lang=fi

Species 3 is not recommended for daily use, but nothing is said about species 4-6. Yet I KNOW that women here rarely eat any of those, only lax really and it's not even in Top 20! Milk (D3, 5 µg per liter), margarine (D2, 10 µg per 100 g) ja many dairy products (varies) are fortified with vit D.

Also many fish oil supplements have some vit D here. So I think people CAN get their vit D - an american company even started to sell 5000 IU product a week ago here and it was already sold out in two days!

Oh and frying fishes is very popular here, so bye-bye 50% of vit D anyway...


Dr B G...

"It's hard to tell if gluten still causes issues though someone may be symptomatic. Rye in the FUNGEHUT study did not appear to cause the induction of the stress-related genes like potatoes or gluten-containing foods."

Potatoes as well? People are so addicted to them here... I make sure that it's rise all the way and have said that a long time - but for different reasons. Until now.

Ah, the apoptosis genes - wasn't that a finnish study? :-)
While I was in Turkey a week ago - I hadn't taken any vit D supplements for 1½ months to test myself and yes, I got some symptoms from white bread there. Usually I do not touch that stuff... ever, but since it was the only way to get calories there the experience was interesting enough.

By the way, you wrote elsewhere that it may take 6 months to get totally rid of gluten antibodies - can you possibly provide a reference for that? Sounds incredible - do you think it correlates with many symptoms as well at least with some people?

I'm currently reading Gluten Effect by Vikki ja Richard Petersen and writing some blog stuff about it - I'm sure to also use your previous post about the link about wheat being more problematic with concurrent vitamin D deficiency. It semms that Vit D ties up about EVERYTHING together, it's so amazing.

Keep up the great work!

Dr. B G said...

Hi Neo,

That is an interesting bread and vitamin D experiment. I wonder how low the blood level went down?

I don't remember how long antibodies related to gluten, gliaden and the others take to go away. I believe it might be related to the immune system, thyroid and other factors (infectious agents, nutritional deficiencies, toxicity, etc).

Oops -- I meant 'asymptomatic' sorry!


Wow I can't believe the vitamin D sold so fast! If you ever need an extra job -- you should consider consulting and SELLING vitamin D. I'm the local purveyor *haa* but I don't turn a profit.


Yes the fried foods *blatch!* Oxidized and hydrogenated veggie oils used for frying have toxic dihydro-vitamin K1. No wonder autoimmune diseases are rampant! Vitamin D deficiency is just one of a multitude of assaults.

-G

AlphaMale said...

"Stephan Guyenet said...
G,

Ha, thanks for the recognition. It looks like your HDL is about to zoom past mine!

I'm really interested by the FH fellow you described. FH is too common to have been so deadly back in paleo times. That leads me to believe that FH patients are simply hypersensitive to the effects of the industrial diet. What do you think?"


I'd love yo read more about that. This, Sir, is very in line with your usual no nonsense. God, please give us more Stephan-like people.

AlphaMale said...

" Dr. B G said...
Stephan,

..

The FH gentleman is interesting. I agree -- like Lp(a) -- I think these phenotypes in fact are characteristic of the best warriors among the human race. African Americans also exhibit high Lp(a) (not Trigs I believe) but their Lp(a) is 'symmetrical' which appears to render them benign."

Also some interesting ideas here.. had only heard of that once, I believe they were doing a study related to hypercholesterolemia in collaboration with some Montreal researchers at McGill U. The study group was taken from French Canadians whose ancestors had crossed the atlantic 10+ generations ago. Life was apparently extremely tough along the St-Lawrence river for the first European settlers, and death rates were very high. Coincidentally nowdays FH is supposedly very prevalent among them (that is, the survivors), hence the reason to choose that study group


"My few pts with FH (and Lp(a)) tend to be good athletes when committed, mentally exceptionally sharp and definitely survivors. The trait may be a Paleo advantage but I think you are right on. In neolithic times the diet may hinder their lifespan due an inherent hypersensitivity to industrial diets."

So what happens if they switch to a paleo type diet? Do they lose these qualities to some degree for the sake of improving their lipid profile and longevity, or do they actually stay as mentally and physically sharp? I mean cholesterol is so important for bain and hormonal function, I wonder how it is affected. Maybe as long as they eat enough saturated fat they even improve?

AlphaMale said...

I stumbled on an interesting quote in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equine_metabolic_syndrome

"Ponies and horse breeds that evolved in relatively harsh environments with only sparse grass (such as domesticated Spanish Mustangs and Peruvian Pasos, among others),[1] tend to be more prone to EMS and insulin resistance, possibly as a survival mechanism (i.e. lay down fat when conditions are good). Such animals are sometimes called "easy keepers." "

Not really FH but we all know how they're all somehow related. I then googled a bit more and found accounts from veterinerians who boiled it down to - you guessed it - molasses-ridden barn food and gazing in fields (artificially) high in sweet grass. Not only do dairy cows, horses, etc have all their minerals individually optimized for optimal health, vets even know how to cure their type II diabetes!

They also said that on a proper diet these animals tend to be in superior health. I'll try to find studies on the precise mechanisms at some point; vets have more common sense anyway. If physicians were that advanced they would actually start healing people

Dr. B G said...

Hi AlphaMale,

Thank you for your comments -- definitely I am enamored with Stephan Guyenet PhD just as you! He has amazing insights and cuts through scientific studies like a knife.

I think in light of evolution -- Lp(a) and FH make sense as you have alluded. The equine study is quite interesting! Will ck it out soon!

Have you read Peter at hyperlipid blog? He is a vet and sharp. His observations are what have made me draw similar conclusions as you have. Are we not all animals?

Take care,
G

AlphaMale said...

"Are we not all animals?" Definitly! Actually sometimes I feel I learn more by looking at what vets do, for example because they are not afraid to discriminate and to say things as they are and to talk freely about certain breeds or certain individuals in a population having stronger survival traits. For humans it's hard to discuss the implications of such an obvious fact because of fear of hurting some other people's feelings. So what do we do? We put Inuits on pasta and sugars and watch their kids suffer all the disease possible.

Anyway thanks for pointing out Peter. I had heard of his blog but had never checked it out and didnt know he's a vet. I'm gonna have to read more about what he says about FH. I glanced through the stuff and saw he discussed a study where in the 19th century FH actually had a slightly longer life expectancy? That would not surprise me. I wonder if many other species have similar genetic mutations, and if so hopefully get Peter's comments on the subject. And if not, could that be considered another point for Linus Pauling's team?

Dr. B G said...

Alpha Male,

You are welcome here anytime! Some FH may have more PON1 or other genetic adaptations for protection.

You will enjoy Peter's insights. Kurt Harris at PaNu is good too -- he has background in Zoology I believe which I don't find in his writing but do think it influences his evolutionary thoughts and greatly appreciate. Before PaNU his LDL obviously were lower. After, Kurt has FH. *haa*

Definitely one point for the Pauling camp!! Vitamin C is underrated in species where it is not synthesized de novo (e.g. humans, my g. pig MoMo). All of these adaptations from whereever our ancestors tried to survive and live (even the vegetarians where meat/fowl/grubs were perhaps scarce).

What is your 'species' phenotype? Our genome might include mountaineous living, close attention to details and perserverance genes. Sensitivity to low iodine and low minerals (e.g. Grave's disease, thyroid autoimmunity)

-grace

AlphaMale said...

Dear Grace,

Too bad you arent my neighboor cauz I would invite you for dinner at some point and I bet we would find a lot to talk about!

Now that you mention Kurt and LDL-C, my friend has a slightly different point of view which, evolutionary speaking, also makes sense to me. I would be curious to know what you think of it http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=39704

"What is your 'species' phenotype? Our genome might include mountaineous living, close attention to details and perserverance genes. Sensitivity to low iodine and low minerals (e.g. Grave's disease, thyroid autoimmunity)" Not sure exactly what you mean, but it sounds like you are totally describing me.. hahah And actually I tested my minerals recently cause I knew they were giving me some troubles.. zinc, magnesium and calcium are very low. copper way to high. i think iodine is also low but the loading test came back with a strange result so ignore it. I suppose all are at least partially a result of my previous grains- and sugars-filled diet. But if you can tell me more of your observations or suggest links to read about these phenotypes that would be great

trinkwasser said...

So sue me, I'm reading slowly because your blog is so information-dense.

Genetic variation interests me more than, say, Stephan, who is predominantly looking at environmental effects over a whole population.

This is because one side of my family has weird genes - metabolic syndrome/IR and Type 2 even in slim fit healthy people which appears to be driven specifically by dietary carbs and notably wheat.

The dietician tried to kill me - a low fat diet drove my TChol from 265 to 292 and LDL from 165 to 201 leaving my HDL around 25.

Adding a statin brought LDL down to 74 and trigs to 185 leaving HDL around 33. I was left like that for years (my then GP refused to give me the numbers)

Low carbing brought my LDL up to 105 and my HDL to 47 while trigs plummeted to 39

More sat fats drove my HDL up to 55 and my LDL down to 94

Dropping the 10mg simvastatin and subsituting niacin, my HDL went to 47 but my LDL shot up to 156 and my trigs to 112

Adding back the statin and dropping exercise HDL went back to 55 and LDL back to 101 but my trigs stayed up around 125 obviously because I was not longer burning off the few carbs I still ate.

So I have some idea of the impact of various strategies. My Best Numbers have been HDL 58.5 LDL 74 and trigs 39 BUT not (yet) all at once.

I'm somewhat envious of the HDL others can obtain without a statin, but I was recently pointed to this

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/193105.php

Haven't (yet) dug out the original paper, but what think you? Another J curve - or another attempt to scare people off their fats and onto statins?

(Don't even ask about NMR etc. the "Rule" here is that "When you are on a statin we don't need to measure your cholesterol again" and "You can't have an A1c until you are diabetic", which my GP overturns but only once a year for fear of upsetting the accountants.)