Thursday, October 2, 2014

Don't Take Resistant Starch If You Have Moderate to Severe Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBS) (Part 3)

This is 3 of 5 series:

Moderate to Severe IBS: Don't Take RAW RS2

IBS is a common syndrome marked by alternating diarrhea and constipation or mainly constipation (IBS-C) or mainly loose stools (IBS-D). The 7 Steps are very effective for IBS whether IBS-C or IBS-D because the 7 Steps embody functional medicine which finds the root problem and fixes it. HERE are successful cases for 7 Steps and functional medicine.
"Many of the faecal microbiota taxa that have been shown to be associated with IBS, such as Ruminococcaceae and Clostridium cluster XIVa, are known to be enriched for species that produce SCFAs [87]." Jeffrey et al, 2013. Source.
Caged vipers live in the zoos of individuals with IBS and these are RS2/starch eaters. Vipers are a relative term. Rumino and Clostridium cluster XIVa are notorious RS2, RS3, starch and inulin eating monsters. They love RS2. They love inulin. They love RS3 and starches (see Tim's 26-fold expansion of XIVa/Roseburia eating whole, real resistant starch, low GI starches). If these creatures are overgrowing in your small intestines, don't take resistant starch until the situation is improved.

Members of the Ancestral Core are OVERGROWING in the Foregut

We need lots of Ruminococcus and Clostridia cluster XIVa which are prominent members of the ancestral core I talked at length about in the AHS14. Cluster XIVa is one of the vital groups of gut microbiota that protect and recovered an rodent model of peanut allergy recently.

However in IBS, there are excessive amounts of these 'good' ancestral bacteria in the small intestines (SI) where the surface is relatively sterile with only rare microbes compared with the hot, fermenting compost in the colon. They are invading because the gatekeepers are gone (soil organisms, bifidobacteria, etc). Too many bugs inhabiting the SI cause small intestinal permeability (SIBO). If yeasts and fungi are involved as a result of overgrowth after antibiotics wipe out the symbiont bacteria, this is known as SIFO, small intestinal FUNGAL overgrowth. This is a hidden and prevalent condition and leads to intestinal permeability, then, subsequent auto-immune disorders, inflammation, cancer, strokes and heart attacks.

Ruminococcus may favor RS2 in rhizomes and tubers over any other food because of a preference etched in their DNA from 1 to 2 million years ago or even longer. Raw tubers, wild carrots, roots of cattails and water chestnuts contain granules of RS2 that Ruminocccus bromii will physically attach to with ancient machinery and ferment the f*kc out of.

How Do You Know If Ruminococcus and Clostridia XIVa Are In the Small Intestines?

Intolerance for inulin, starches or resistant starch are often loud TMIs and uncomfortable cramps or bloating. These are the 'hallmarks' for IBS and are triggered by diet, stress or other factors.
"High levels of acetic acid and propionic acid were associated with poor QOL and negative emotion in this study." Tana et al, 2009. Source.
In IBS, butyric acid and other SCFAs (acetic acid and propionic acid) are ironically high. We don't want to really make these higher. The more SCFAs, the worse mental function research has found. The gut-brain axis is broken. This is a modern triad: IBS, depression/anxiety and migraines/headaches. Body aches or fibromylagia are not uncommon as well.

FODMAPS, sugar, fructose and digestible starches are consumed by Lactobacillus which is a common species found to be elevated as well. More lacto probiotics and fermented foods which are rich in lactobacillus will make IBS symptoms and mental function worse. Again until improved digestion and the 7 steps helps to improve the health and function of the small intestines, following a full-on or semi GAPS, SCD or a lower fermentable fiber diet is prudent until the weeds are thinned out. Long term these special diets compromise gut function by depriving the guts of fuel and energy for the microbiota.

Unfortunately if you have these benign but HUNGRY RS- and inulin-chomping critters living where they are not supposed -- the small intestines, a mostly sterile place -- more IBS signs and symptoms will be present (bloating, gas, pain, bloating and even brain fog and fatigue).  Think of the small intestines as a freeway. It doesn't want to be congested or a city-wide buffet for millions of critters. It wants its contents to flow and be absorbed and move along.

Concomitant GERD and IBS

GERD and IBS often go hand in hand. The very pharmaceuticals that 'treat' GERD make small intestinal congestion worse. Without acid, digestion halts and gases back up, producing symptoms of heart burn, epigastric pain, fullness and GERD. The gases make the sphincter loose. Drugs like NSAIDs, ibuprofen, acid blockers, PPIs, 'the purple pill Prilosec/omeprazole' all increase pathogenic growths and lower Bifidobacteria. Without the trigger of massive normal acidity in the stomach, not only do pathogens thrive, but protein digesting enzymes will be defunct. Our ancestral core probiotics in our gut play vital roles in making sure digestion rolls forward without a hitch. Antibiotics, stress and high sugar/refined diets compromise their environment in our guts. It is not wonder so many people have to reach for TUMS or Mylanta for transient relief. Try to identify root causes as these solutions actually make the problem far worse.


Fixing the Root Problem(s)

Our small intestines are carnivorous; to breakdown fats and meat/seafood/vegetarian protein, 3 things are mandatory -- (1) high acid, (2) bile acids, and (3) clever cutters, known as pancreatic enzymes, to degrade everything to smaller parcels.

Without adequate acid, fat and protein malabsorb and putrify. This can stink up stools (but not always, test...don't guess). Farts too, no longer making flatus pleasant and compost-y. It is not obvious for some unless functional medicine labs are done to detect fat and triglycerides in stools that travel unbroken and fully intact instead of being absorbed and providing energy to the host.

If acid is impaired consideration for the below helps optimal digestion:
--walking 10-20 minutes after meals
--kombucha, kraut, kefir, diluted raw apple cider vinegar with most meals
--betaine HCl (Robb Wolf has a fantastic protocol he has used for years)
--digestive enzyme supplementation
--bile acid supplementation (Hat tip: Lola)

For optimal gut health in the improvement of IBS, consider not taking any resistant starch or inulin temporarily if IBS symptoms are triggered.  Yes that includes version A (potato starch) and version B (GBF which contains ~5 grams RS2 + inulin) of bionic fiber. Consider rehabilitating the gut by seeding with symbionts (like soil probiotics and bifidobacteria), feeding what is appropriate and to select what you need (not Ruminococcus or Clostridia XIVa) and what is MISSING.


Lola said...

I've tried all of these different protocols. The GAPS diet/ SCD for my IBS-D, Psoriasis, headaches, SIBO, fructose malabsorption etc. They all work but not completely. I noticed some benefit from psyllium and resistant starch but it didn't cure my SIBO completely or fix my food intolerances. Recently I've said screw it, started eating fibre and fermentable carbs again but with plenty of soluble fibre, raw garlic, HCL and Bile salts and with the addition of raw grated Carrots, beets and in the morning and I am completely symptom free. I even ate honey which would completely kill me in the past. I'm fine. I have dewy skin, no psoriasis anywhere and no headaches. I think some people have crappy working livers/gallbladders and just need bile acids to kill out the SIBO in their guts.

Dr. B G said...

AAAhhh Lola,

Prevotella is a b*tch. I think you had Prevotella overgrowths. You know what helps? Bile acids. And acid and oil in general -- EVOO, etc.

Did you try also any raw ACV, apple cider vinegar diluted in water, kefir, kvass or kombucha?

Excellent, thank you for sharing. I completely agree. Raw soluble and insoluble vegetables helps a lot too for those who can tolerate. I prefer Vitamix over the LaLanne juicers because all the excellent organic outer skins and fiber are lost.

Dr. B G said...


I appreciate you mentioning the failures you had with the mentioned diets.

Also all the diets that you mention sacrifice gut health pretty shortly by not supplying the colonocytes with the food and fuel to maintain the barrier function which is necessary to require any kind of long term health. For 2-6 wks they are ok, but beyond that we are looking problems.

Here is a study -- if you starve out your symbionts in the gut by any of these:
low inulin diet
low fiber diet
low RS3 diet
(??high RS2 raw potato starch?!)
strict Paleo

...Then potentially significant bone marrow suppression might occur, which can lead to severe health problems like cancer and lymphoma.

Antibiotic wipes out good gut flora, drop bone marrow function by ONE QUARTER...WTF ???!

Lola said...

My problems started about 17 or so years ago after intense broad spectrum antibiotics over the course of about a year. I was/still am I guess, so messed up because of it. I shred beets (to thin my own bile) carrots and crush garlic and then mix it all with a little salt, raw apple cider vinegar and coconut oil and eat that for breakfast. then I eat a very healthy but big lunch and dinner and take HCL, Ox Bile, zinc, a high quality B complex and vitamin K2 with both. In the evening I take psyllium and potato starch with some of my home fermented veggies. We're lucky in that we live on a farm and I have access to all sorts of bacteria in my day to day life. Chickens, cows, horses, turkeys, ducks etc... I feel so good now and I was so sick for so long I can barely believe it. I guess I just needed bile :)

oberon said...

I'm confused. There seem to be two camps on SIBO; one approach is to minimize fermentable fiber, and the other is to maximize it. Dr BG, are you changing teams?

My case is that I have mild rosacea, and TMI that is frequent and sometimes loose. I eat paleo +legumes and rice, and I found that upping my fermentable fibers helped with TMI, but not the rosacea. I saw a naturopath and I tested positive for SIBO, the hydrogen version. She prescribed Rifaximin, I am on the last day of it. The skin has gotten much better (though not perfect), but the TMI seems worse. Now I am supposed to do two months of SCD/low-FODMAP, plus glutamine, probiotics, and low-dose naltrexone. I can test adding more fiber after two months. Would you suggest anything different?

BTW, I did a ubiome test before the Rifaximin, but after a few weeks up upping RS. Very low bifido, moderately low lactobacili, but high Clostridia like Roseburia. Very high Paraprevotella.

Dr. B G said...


Do you think your farm, its livestock and healthy soil exposures speeded up your guy recovery? I would speculate it did! How long has your gut been perfect now?

Did you have major and severe gluten intolerances as well during the 17 yrs and even prior if you may recall? Did you have body/muscles along with headaches and acne? Thx. To me these are related to prevotella too.

Your grated beets and farm fresh fermented veggies sound absolutely divine!! What kind of ferments are you doing?

Yes I concur most everyone I meet has crappy gallbladders, post appendectomy and low stomach acid. Everything is compromised -- no fat digestion, no protein breakdown, tons to crap growing onthe stomach/oral cavity and SMALL INTESTINES.

All pathogens and yeasts love growin at pH greater than 7. When acid isn't created or produced in the stomach, the rest is j*kced up completely. Congratulations! I believe you squeezed out candida and pathogenic bacteria that flourished without good symbionts and broken acid/bile.

Lola said...

I did have severe acne on my jawline and chin. I was/am intolerant of gluten (at least I think I still am, I haven't tried it) in that it makes my thyroid go completely crazy. I had postpartum thyroiditis after three of my four children but didn't know until my last pregnancy and was able to avoid it by eating brazil nuts every day and avoiding gluten. My road to recovery has been slow and gradual. I managed to get my acne under control for the most part but my headaches and psoriasis along with foggy thinking and mood swings just recently cleared up the end of this summer. I was constantly having to micromanage everything I ate to be able to function.

I started fermenting my own foods (dilly carrots, beets, pickles, sauerkraut, Kombucha etc) and continued on with the resistant starch and psyllium even though I wasn't convinced it would cure me. I added raw garlic and all of the sudden started to feel pretty good. Then I read about endotoxins some more, upped my soluble fibre even more and started taking HCL and I felt really great. My psoriasis cleared up. So I experimented with foods like chocolate, dairy and fruit. I felt fine. I was eating the equivalent of about 3 large fermented carrots a day so I though maybe that was it. The Bile acids and HCL really helped I think but I do feel like living on the farm has made a huge difference. We moved to our farm last year and things are getting better so fast! I have all of my kids eating veggies out of the garden and I'm embarrassed to admit how many times I've had to clean who know's what kind of manure off my two year olds face. They are the picture of health and finally I feel like I'm getting there too. Thanks for all you do to help people.

kathykpsd said...

Hi Dr. Grace,

I feel like this entry was written about me. I posted here once before--I've had trouble with potato starch (causes constipation), fermented food (bleeding--and I LOVE fermenting stuff!) and probiotics/prebiotics seem to have no effect. I sometimes feel like I should swallow the $ I've spent on supplements and save myself the step of actually buying them. :) My issues are multiple food intolerances, cramps, bloating, the whole IBS constellation. I also have Sjogren's syndrome and take meds for a mood disorder.

I was tested for SIBO in August and the test was negative. I have tried a low FODMAP diet in the past and didn't see much of a difference.

I'm a little unsure of how to proceed. Low fermentable fiber = low FODMAP, right? There's so much contradictory information about what foods are acceptable on a low FODMAP diet. Any sort of supplementation, probiotics, etc while on the diet, or wait until improvement is seen? What should I be looking for? Given the fact that reactions are highly individualized, what is a reasonable length of time to stay on the diet?

I have been eating a lot of potatoes--blue, purple, white, Japanese sweet potatoes (addictive), orange sweet potatoes, and purple sweet potatoes, and I have slowly been tolerating them better, for what that's worth.

I have a uBiome test that I plan to do in a few weeks. I was recently on vacation and not eating my typical diet. Also got a referral to an Integrative Health Clinic.

Your blog is great--I check it every day and have learned a lot.


Anonymous said...

Sorry to be hijacky. I just saw an episode of The Mid-Wives wherein the first diagnoses of cystic fibrosis was portrayed.
I tried to find research on the gut bugs found in my Ubiome sample. One of the species is a "mucin degrader." I can't figure out which one at the moment. But might that be a way to help CF patients? Maybe even some kind of pump of mucin degrader bugs? I truly hope that 'bacteria as medicine' can bring relief to "no cure" conditions.

Anonymous said...

Hi Grace

Thank you for this amazing resource - I am avidly following everything you write and trying to make changes ..... I see everything you write about the dreaded antibiotics and fear that all is lost for me - I take a low dose antibiotic 3 times a week ( Azythromycin which is a macrolide antibiotic ) for bronchiectasis - this is long term for me and a conventional treatment for this disease but am I wrecking my gut and my fututre good health ? I did ask my consultant ( in the UK) about long term problems and he thought it was pretty hilarious, gave me a pat on the head and told me it was nonsense ..... Sigh.
Thanks Grace for all of this and for your ginormous braininess x

Anonymous said...

Just a quick question Grace; do you think pink urine after eating beets or beet juice, is a sign of leaky gut? This never happened when I was young, but now I'm in my late 50's it happens every time i eat beets.

Dr. B G said...


I'd love to visit your farm someday! "We moved to our farm last year and things are getting better so fast! I have all of my kids eating veggies out of the garden and I'm embarrassed to admit how many times I've had to clean who know's what kind of manure off my two year olds face. They are the picture of health and finally I feel like I'm getting there too."

Gosh don't wish you everyone had this? What a blessing! MUD AND MANURE lol ahaah What I think is even more wonderful are the values and traditions your children get to experience and get 'seeded' with. That's truly priceless. What is heartening of course is I hope many realize the recovery you've made. It's not that hard. The root causes needed to be fixed then nature and evolution take care (mostly) the rest.

I updated the post with bile acids and hat tip to you and your gut improvements!

Dr. B G said...

(Love your blog too Lola -- your photography is STUNNING)

Dr. B G said...


Nah I didn't switch teams -- the root problem needs to be addressed. Avoiding fodmaps isn't forever and shouldn't be. That is the problem I have Siebecker, Pimental and other traditionalist type SIBO treatments.

Rosacea is not unlike psoriasis that Lola talks about. Did you see her comments? Do you have access to an organic farm with animals and plants? Do you garden?

Sounds like your gut is missing a boatload and raw potato starch didn't fix the bifido, lacto or overgrowths. You need to fix digestion and these gut extinctions fyi for longterm relief. In case you are not aware the potent Rifaximin just probably made these worse...and will grow out fungi later because its spectrum is for blasting bacteria, but not yeasts.

Dr. B G said...


Forgot -- I brought up the intense gluten 'allergies' because for certain genetics, gluten really targets damage to the biliary tree and ducts. My kids and I have this -- susceptibility for primary sclerosing cholangitis and biliary cirrhosis, on 23andme testing. I bet many have this -- so stopping gluten is great but it doesn't necessarily heal the gallbladder, biliary ducts and pancreatic secretions. I believe once candida translocates up in there, many things get 'damaged' in the plumbing!

Exercise, probiotics, antifungal botanicals, fixing the acidity/bile acids and helping the bile to flow (your beets!) will.

Unknown said...

I can tolerate some but not much resistant starch without stirring up GERD (burping, pressure). Should I reduce RS to a symptom-free level and continue with SBO (PrescriptAssist, AOR Probiotic 3) or discontinue SBO altogether awhile? Sorry, I've no access to manure or sloppy dog kisses…

Dr. B G said...

Hey Kathy,

Potato starch maybe shifting the populations, right? I'm sorry about the fermented foods -- it maybe mycotoxin related and/or lacto. As I mentioned in this post Lactobacilli are problematic. In the Dave Asprey bulletproof podcast, we talk about Dave's high lacto. He is no fan as it makes him very fat/foggy/fatigued. After a round of weeding, he regained his 6-pack abs by lowering the lacto (and parasites/pathogens).

Have you tried bifidobacteria probiotics? Do you tolerate any of the inulin rich foods in small amounts (yes these are FODMAPS lol)? What have you done to improve digestion?

Let me know your ubiome later! Would love to look at here -- you can post or send to me. Give me permission to discuss on the podcast!

Dr. B G said...


CF is soooooooo tuff you have no idea. It is not so simple.

Autoimmunity and a genetic mucous-overproduction is at the heart. Unfortunately modern healthcare hugely exacerbate by giving broad spectrum antibiotics for the Pseudomonas that inevitably grows out in the mucus that lacks ancestral probiotics. Then the CF patient has intense yeast overgrowths everywhere even if they don't show overt signs. If they don't have other autoimmune diseases, then they will end up with several.

Dr. B G said...


That didn't happen before? mmmmhh, that's a good question! I think it is quite normal to have pink urine. Certain vegetables like garlic sprouts and asparagus cause the urine to change smells and it is genetically related who does this more.


THanks for reading. Much more to come soon!!

Sorry to hear about your gut predicament. [FROWN] That kinda sucks, as does the knee-JERK response. pun

"I take a low dose antibiotic 3 times a week ( Azythromycin which is a macrolide antibiotic ) for bronchiectasis"

This is kinda related to Regina's question about cystic fibrosis (CF) which is marked by frequent broniectasis. Do you know why your lungs are prone to bronchiectasis? Is that common in your family tree? Did you have frequent sinus or airway problems and subsequent antibiotics as a kid? ear infections? Were you a colicky baby?

Probiotics may have a place but alone in prospective human studies, they don't work. My kids and used to have asthma -- my oldest was in the ER a few times with blue lips. Later I found it the lung microbiota is compromised. We are all off inhalers now. vitamin D and going gluten free did it. I think these remodeled the gut-lung microbiotas.

Curr Opin Pediatr. 2011 Jun;23(3):319-24.
The airway microbiome in cystic fibrosis and implications for treatment.
Zemanick ET1, Sagel SD, Harris JK.

Lung disease in cystic fibrosis (CF) results from chronic airway infection and inflammation leading to progressive bronchiectasis and respiratory failure. Bacterial pathogens, including Pseudomonas aeruginosa, Staphylococcus aureus, and Burkholderia cepacia, are known contributors. Recent studies using culture-independent molecular techniques and anaerobic cultures have broadened our view of CF airway bacterial communities.
Sanger sequencing, high-throughput pyrosequencing, and phylogenetic microarray analysis have been used to comprehensively examine the airway microbiome in CF. Findings confirm that CF airway bacterial communities are highly complex structures with anaerobes frequently present. Importantly, there is evidence that loss of community diversity and richness is associated with older age and decreased lung function in CF. Bacterial communities are also likely influenced by antibiotic use, chronic P. aeruginosa infection, host genetic background (ΔF508 CFTR mutation) and geographic variations. Quantitative anaerobic cultures also detect high quantities of anaerobes from CF airway samples, including during pulmonary exacerbations. The effect of antimicrobial therapy on the airway microbiome needs further investigation. In addition, probiotic approaches have been recently studied; whether probiotics act by altering microbial communities or by modulating host inflammatory response is unknown.
Complex bacterial communities, including traditional CF-associated pathogens and anaerobic bacteria, are common in CF airways. Novel therapeutic approaches aimed at modulating airway bacterial communities may lead to improved treatment of CF lung disease.

Dr. B G said...

(cont) J Biol Regul Homeost Agents. 2012 Jan-Mar;26(1 Suppl):S35-40.
Airways allergic inflammation and L. reuterii treatment in asthmatic children.
Miraglia Del Giudice et al
Recently, it has been hypothesized that the oral administration of specific live probiotic strains may have therapeutic potential in the treatment of allergic inflammation. The aim of this study was to evaluate the effect of the oral L. reuteri DSM 17938 administration (1X108CFU), in airways allergic inflammation in mild persistent asthmatic children. In this DBPC randomized study we selected 50 children (6-14 years old), affected by mild persistent asthma (GINA step 2) and allergic to HDM. At the run-in period (T-2), the children were submitted to medical examination, prick tests for the main respiratory allergens, spirometry and children asthma control test (C-ACT). We selected only the children with well controlled asthma (C-ACT >19 and FEV1> 80%). After two weeks (T0) the children were allocated into two groups, the FeNO was measured and the breath condensate was collected. Group A children were treated with the placebo (5 drops per day) and Group B children with L. reuteri (108CFU =5 drops per day) for 60 days. After the treatment period (T1), all patients were evaluated by medical examination, C-ACT, spirometry, FeNO measurement and exaled breath condensate analysis. The FeNO values showed a significant reduction (p=0,045) in L. reuteri group but not in the placebo group at the end of the treatment (T1). Furthermore, the cytokines exam showed an increase in IL-10 levels (p less than 0.05) and a significant reduction in IL-2 levels (p less than 0.05) only in L. reuteri group at T1. No significant differences in FEV1 values and C-ACT score were found in both groups. In conclusion, these data showed that L. reuteri (108 CFU) was effective in reducing bronchial inflammation in asthmatic children. No significant effect was found on FEV1 values and C-ACT score, probably because we selected children with well controlled asthma.

Dr. B G said...

Hey Unknown

Me either! 'Sorry, I've no access to manure or sloppy dog kisses…'

You really don't wanna stir a nasty pot

oberon said...

Dr BG, no I don't have access to a farm. I live in a city, and don't do much gardening. I can certainly add in Prescript Assist (I used it before while taking RS). Should I be adding bile, or should I test for low stomach acid, first? The Rifaximin is a done deal, finished it yesterday.

Anonymous said...

Not a cure-all, but I think Now Ojibwa Concentrate is a great supplement. It is the same as Essiac (burdock root, sheep sorrel, slippery elm and turkish rhubard). It's super cheap and concentrated:

fwi jmho :o)))

Lola said...

Well, I'll just keep avoiding gluten and continue working on my liver, gallbladder and gut. Thanks for everything. If you are ever in Nova Scotia, let me know and we'll ferment you some veggies and have you over for supper!

Dr. B G said...


I always feel testing is better than guessing. You cannot go wrong with bifidobacteria probiotics post-Rifaximin (eg post-extinctions) until further testing is down. Soil probiotics appear to super well tolerated in IBS and in fact the Prescript Assist studies are excellent for IBS.


You are full of wonderful treasures!

Have you checked out Tim's recent post Native Americans use of cattails?

It is one of many ingredients from the abundant resources from the forests and river banks, rich nutrients in many gems for the gut. High 17% fiber, resistant starch, minerals, carbs and edible pollen (high plant sterols). Acorns were used in the same way by Native American Indians I've learned here in California where there were many tribes. Acorn also is rich in fiber, RS and carbs, which need to be processed. Both can be ground into flour. Acorn is fed to livestock but for some it's toxic raw if the dose is too high. Gallotannins have to be leached (kinda like maize and lime), bringing out the sweetness and removing the bitter.

The ingredients of Ojibwa Tea are rich in different gut support ingredients. I use a lot of slippery elm because it is mucusy. In China I discovered burdock and found out it is used all over Asia in soups or slivered raw in salads, rich in RS and other nutrients. Very medicinal.

Have you tried it? Thoughts? The rhubarb is used in TCM, having antiviral and antimicrobial effects. Actually it can depress bifidobacteria too -- too much might be adverse for some, same with any botanical herb/tea, etc.

Ojibwa Tea -- Native American formula
Burdock (Arctium lappa) (Root) (4:1 Extract)
Sheep Sorrel (Rumex acetosella) (Leaf) (4:1 Extract)
Slippery Elm (Ulmus fulva) (Bark) (4:1 Extract)
Turkey Rhubarb (Rheum palmatum) (Root) (4:1 Extract)

Dr. B G said...


Definitely! What a menagerie on your farm. Your kids are SO RIDICULOUSLY LUCKY.

Don't forget to check out your thyroid if the rest of your health doesn't repair. I didn't mention it on this post but it is step #7. My buddy Dr Wm Trumbower MD wrote a chapter in the recently released book: Stop the Thyroid Madness II. (I think the gut parts could be better lol!) Part of the gluten damage on the vulnerable thyroid can be fully recovered -- it's a wonderful compilation by functional medicine providers including methylation defects. Sounds like you've accomplished much already and I'm so grateful to hear your story.

kathykpsd said...

Thanks so much for the info, Dr. B G. I would be happy to share any test results with you and Tim, who also asked. Here is a list of things I've tried over the years:


high fiber
low fiber
low fat
low carb
low fodmap
low histamine
gluten free


generic, store brand types
Prescript Assist
digestive enzymes
pectin (not for very long, though)
raw potato starch


fermented (sauerkraut, pickles, peppers, beet kvass, green beans, kimchi)

You can see how frustrating the various diets can be, because just about every fruit or vegetable that's OK on one diet is not allowed on another--e.g. pears are low histamine but high in fructose, oranges are balanced glucose/fructose-wise, but histamine producing or releasing, I forget which. I haven't eaten gluten for three years, as that's a major problem for me. I recently cut out dairy.

I'm not sure where my gut stands on inulin. I'm going to specifically try that. My yard is full of dandelion leaves which I sometimes add to salads, but the weather is too abysmal to pick them today. I rarely eat raw onions, so I will give those a go too. And then maybe expand my inulin horizons.

I seem to not be making matters worse by eating a wide variety of potatoes.

I looked for bifido probiotics today and everything in stores also had lactobacillus in it, except for Align. I was hesitant to buy that because it had titanium dioxide listed as an ingredient. Can you recommend something?

I'm not taking any sorts of supplements at the moment, because they seem to be on a fool's errand until some gut gentrification takes place.

Thank you again!

Anonymous said...

Thanks so much Dr. Grace,

I cringed after I posted because I just blurt things out (Asperger's?).

Great info from Tim on cattails!! Thank you.

Thx for the tip on Rhubarb and bifido. Duh-oh!! My UButt results showed zero bifido, so maybe I shouldn't have any Ojibwa tea. ?? I have used in the past as Flor Floressence Gentle Whole Body Detox is the same thing (only way weaker and way more expensive. duh).

I have my dog on Ojibwa right now for his chronic everything (itchy, seizures, chewing, licking). As well, I have way upped his animal fiber (Hat tip you guys) in the form of tendons, pizzles, duck feet, tracheas. My girlfriend's german shepherd was just diagnosed w Mast Cell Carcinoma. I suggested to her to get him on Ojibwa and VibactraPlus (has pau d'arco, etc). He had one huge tumor removed and the Vet is completely blown away at his recovery. He said he has never in his life seen a wound heal so quickly. He did another biopsy and decided to not go ahead with chemo - shaking his head in awe how this dog's health changed in less than 2 wks of diagnosis. I have heard directly of both humans and dogs being healed of cancer staying on Ojibwa for a lengthy time.
My sister-in-law just got out of the emergency room with gallbladder attack. I suggested Ojibwa and a short course of milk thistle.
I hope I am screwing anyone up. Good to know about the bifido and rhubarb.

Regards, Regina

Dr. B G said...


Perhaps if the prebiotics and probiotics are fine, then the antiviral and antimicrobial scrubbing effects outweigh any potential negative effects? I think so from the success stories u posted on! I hope Keith Bell chimes in. His beautiful dog developed seizures after a vaccination. Some of the few things that helped were MSM and organic gum acacia (Heathers). The Ojibwa probably would not have been objectionable. Certain probiotics Keith said made the seizures worse like Culterelle.

For a friends son with seizures he did very well for focus and reduction of ADHD with soil probiotics (we are urbanites) and one tbs potato starch daily. They already had a fantastiv kombucha dosage daily but flatlined on improvements. The baseline gut, diet and dosage probably ultimately make the cure v poison! Your friends can team up with some kombucha makers. The spent scobies are natural anti-pathogens and can safely ride parasites and pathogens when consumed for both humans and pets :)

Dr. B G said...

TRACHEAS AND TENDONS!!! Lol. I want some

Anonymous said...

Thanks, once again, for wonderful information Dr. Grace.

This whole series is completely brilliant.

I have some Heather's. Yay! It was vaccination for my dog too. He titered beautifully but Vet said she was required by law to give him rabies vac. That was 5 yrs ago and he never recovered. I believe it is a vac-induced encephalitis. I've run through the gamut of therapies over the yrs. I think I am seeing improvements though with the added animal fibers and prescript assist.
Spent scobies! (great name for a band) I can get my continuous brew back up.

Anonymous said...

Dr. BG,

i suspect i may have parasites or giardia and cannot afford the $400 tests. If i took short courses of pyrantel pamoate or albendazole or fenbendazole - any opinions on these as far as impacting gut microbiome? I recall that you mentioned another anti-parasite drug being quite detrimental but i recall if it was one of these.


Dr. B G said...


Some of the symptoms of parasites are actually overlapping with fungi. Both are very invasisve when our guts are missing their ancestral 'core'.

In olden days, like the wild animals practicing zoopharmacognosy, humans and hominids had ways of using clay, roots and botanicals to lower parasitic thresholds. Candida wasn't really a problem (no pesticides/herbicides or antibiotics or formula).

Honestly my integrative training is most informed by our ancestral practices. Follow your gut intelligence.

Dr. B G said...


I enjoy all of the conversations here and all over the net ;) Our global brain haha lol. This is how we've recovered and seeked out better health. I've been lucky to meet the best mentors.

Which animal fibers? That makes! Animals are domesticated carnivores. Keith also loves gelatin which also did wonders as well (Sorry -- forgot that one. Hope he appears here SOON). It is a pseudo proxy for bone broths and much more.

Teen spirit and Spent Scobies lol, yeah, awesome band name!

steve said...

Would an elevated vitamin k level support the dx of SIBO? I do not supplement with K, but had a level of 1360 pg/ml (normal 80-1160). also, ongoing issues with loose stool. seems this would make sense, if the vit k producing bugs have over took the small bowel. thanks!

Keith Bell said...

If my dog were alive today and I had opportunity to continue treating her seizures which were obviously of gut-brain origin and may have been "vac-induced encephalitis" as Regina suspects in her dog, I'd run a PCR stool test similar to GDX in the canine world, but more limited. Unfortunately, most vets aren't even aware such tests exist leave alone that seizures may be of gut origin. Here's a test by IVEXX:

I used gelatin to halt her seizure clusters after one seizure, akin to halting a freight train, where fasting for 24 hours was crucial along with 3-4 therapeutic doses of Great Lakes Beef gelatin (1-2 tbs mixed with something so she'd eat it) throughout the day and maybe some French Green Clay to help mop up toxins. Sometimes I'd also give her bits of ripe banana to keep sugar levels up and help avoid hypoglycemic cause of seizure, but a meal would cause seizure perhaps due to intestinal irritation of vagal nerves in the gut or perhaps Reactive Hypoglycemia. I always thought gelatin was acting as bandage in the gut to trap toxins and soothe the gut lining, but now tend to believe the amino acids were just as if not more instrumental to halting seizure. Glycine is brain calming and alanine converts to carnosine to calm kindling, but perhaps more importantly, alanine fuels gluconeogenesis to avoid hypoglycemia.

Gelatin is no cure, however, just therapy. One month of ionic colloidal silver gave my dog 4 months seizure-free. I stopped using it because I feared it was killing commensal flora, but should have continued, allowing the problem to grow back in her jejunum confirmed via endoscopy which I ordered instead of spinal tap and brain MRI. But vets still couldn't tell me what the particular microbial imbalance was and they probably never knew about PCR testing to even suggest it. Standard culture tests are inadequate. I suspect I was battling a clostridium overgrowth based on images and symptoms, but went through the mill addressing everything from mites to protozoans to yeast to helminths/flukes to bacteria. Nine (9) clueless vets and a neurologist had no answers.

A month on Rifaximin caused urinary incontinence which was cleared-up in two weeks on Natren (ever wonder why adult diaper sales are surpassing baby diapers?) as probiotics no longer caused seizure (previously caused by Culturelle and B. coagulans). What I would treat her with now would be things like tons of probiotics to displace clostridium overgrowth and might even consider intranasal or rectal FMT. I'd continue with ionic silver and add OptiMSM in the right dose, vitamin D3, sodium ascorbate, bee propolis and niacinamide. As far as diet goes, I'd consider the lentil/vegetable/rice route used with this 27 year old dog because meat may have produced too much gastric acid leading to irritation as cause of seizure until the gut lining healed. Seizure after meals was all too common.

Anonymous said...

Good question Steve. My K1 levels were measured at 2025 (same reference range and no supplements or high K foods). Unfortunately, 2 negative breath tests lead the doctors to conclude no SIBO. Most B levels were low though. The section on IBS + GERD described my condition exactly and I wondered if someone was reading my medical history.

Dr. B G said...


Dunno, maybe.


SIBO testing is usually useless when negative.

Thank you for your generous thoughts and sharing your personal experiences. I'm grateful for all the technology that is now available. Even AmGut and ubiome are better than nothing to illuminate what was formerly a complete BLACK HOLE.

Anonymous said...

I have a CDSA 2.0 w/parasitology stool test kit, but I think I may need a new kit. It says to provide samples on 3 consecutive days, however I was unable to go for a few days after my 2nd sample and in addition started taking antibiotics for wisdom tooth removal. Would these things significantly change the results?

Dr. B G said...


the antibiotics make a huge diff unless probiotics. call the company GDX!

Anonymous said...

Thank you so much for sharing your very moving journey in helping your beautiful dog. My heart goes out.
I am a kindred spirit. I think my animal helpers ultimately brought me to here.
I got to paleo (from Homer Simpson vegan) because of them and then to fearing carbs...and then safe starches... But learning never stops.
Since I stupidly allowed my "holistic" vet (wtf) to give Phineas a 3 year rabies vac (even though he titered fine), he has seizures and a lot of ripping at himself - needs continuous management. I used to compete him in Agility (aka The Fin was his 'stage name') and Advanced Competition Obedience. It all ended with that one frickin shot 6 yrs ago. 4 clueless Vets here in Chicago, specialists, MRI, Xrays, blah blah, Homeopathy expert in CA (very good), international reiki (not kidding), 2 vets in FL, 2 more integrative and holistic vet in Chicago. The problem is (other than the homeopathy master who died), these doctors simply don't have a grasp on pathology and, I'm sorry, do not know how to think.
For myself, I have yelped the best internal medicine doctor in Chicago. I had a chest infection for 4 years! Her only thought? Z-pak. She's the best here!
Anyway, I read the Jaminet's book 2 yrs ago and haven't been sick since. Chest is fine. So, clearly the gut is where to go. Dr. Grace's Weed, Seed, Feed, Breed is brilliant!!!!! I recently only learned about animal fiber and have combined this with essiac, probiotics and larch arabinogalactan. Added acacia gum and bee pollen this morning. Wow! Phinny played a helluva frisbee game today. Not quite 'The Fin' but he looked great and he had strong Chi and some joie de vivre. Very very interesting about the lentils/veg/rice! Yeah, I think I was too paleo with my dogs. Raw ration of muscle and organ meats and tripe and marrow bones. We had Pho for dinner tonight and Phineas had his portion with some raw liver. I am definitely going to incorporate your ideas and great tip about keeping the sugars up!! Verily, I feel anxiety when I don't eat enough carbs. I had definitely been starving this dog of carbs, sugars and animal fibers. Besides the seizures and overall OCD self destructive stuff, the one word I would use to diagnose Phineas is "Verklempt". I am so sorry to add to his misery in not feeding him properly but arrogantly thinking I am. You've given me great info to dig into more.
Regards, Regina

Anonymous said...

Sorry to go a bit off topic. Here is an excerpt about an Australian wool grower who allows her sheep to eat a very varied diet. The sheep seem to know what plants help them if they have various health issues. Anyone who doubts the efficacy of botanicals for healing should read this.
btw Alice is the sheep

PIP COURTNEY: Nan stopped fighting weeds. Alice taught her they're a medicine chest that sheep will use when they need - what Fred Provenza calls nutritional wisdom.

(Talking to Nan in a paddock) You've just bought the mob through into this laneway area and they've immediately put their heads down and they're absolutely going for it. What are they eating?

NAN BRAY: I reckon they're eating a bit of chicory. This is chicory. It's an exotic plant and it has properties that help the sheep deal with worm burden and they love it.

If Dr B G has time I'd be interested in her opinion of the probiotic Mutaflor (it's from the TMI of a WW1 soldier)

The Australian emphasis is because I'm Australian

Atm my fatigue and brain fog are such that they are getting in the way of me trying to fix myself. At least my GI issues don't seem too bad for now.

Just as the sheep seemed to instinctively know what to eat I instinctively avoided potato starch and the other RS powders. BUT I've been eating mountains of cooked and cooled parboiled rice for 8 months or so. Maybe as a human I need the science of Dr B G to tell me this is not right for my present ailments.

Looks like I might head back to a low carb regimen, but will try to integrate some ideas from here.
If I could ask another question.
I eat a lot of peanut butter ( natural - peanuts only) I really feel it's not a problem for me.
Are there any sound reasons to cut it out?


Dr. B G said...


You can do integrative medicine stool testing in AUS I'm certain. Very progressive there I've heard. Cooked cooled rice has 2-8% RS3 but depends on the variety. It isn't a bad diet if you are tolerating it well.

Thank you for the story! That was lovely. I adore this part:

'DAVY CARNES: We have not drenched a sheep for years and years. When they look as if they're not right, they tell you more or less - once you know them - we put them in what we call the chicory patches. They eat the chicory and they get right, no worm. And that's a big expense.

PIP COURTNEY: This dam paddock is the farm's pharmacy but how do the sheep know what to eat and when? Well, Nan says farmers have to help them learn.

Now there's no forced weaning. Nan lets the lambs wean themselves and then stay with their mothers who then teach their young what to eat. '

I heard on an organic farm that animal fertility for pigs and cows is still difficult sometimes. They probably don't have diverse access to weeds! Fertility is a great biomarker of health, longevity and "contentedness" lol.

'PIP COURTNEY: The changes here might sound all very nice but do they make good business sense? Nan says yes, as wool production is up 40 per cent, fertility and lambing percentages by nearly 30 per cent and wool quality has improved.

DAVY CARNES: The wool is better if the sheep are contented. I've seen that repeatedly in my lifetime. And here they have been very, very contented. Yes.'

Cat said...

Re: the beeturia -it's associated with problems in iron metabolism, and/or stomach acidity. (This is for if you remember not having it; if you always had it I think it's considered genetic, but I'm not sure if that's right, since what are the chances they tested for stomach acidity in those cases?)

Wiki links to some articles I haven't had a chance to look into yet, but here's their summary:
The red color seen in beeturia is caused by the presence of unmetabolized betalain pigments such as betanin in beetroot passed through the body.[1][2] The pigments are absorbed in the colon.[1] Betalains are oxidation sensitive redox indicators that are decolorized by hydrochloric acid, ferric ions, and colonic bacteria preparations.[3] The gut flora plays a not yet evaluated role in the breakdown of the pigment.[4]
^^ so it could be gut flora or stomach acidity, or both.

Dr. BG, have you seen Jennifer McLagan's new book "Bitter"? She's the author of some good cookbooks: Fat, Bones, and Odd Bits, which you may recall from Huntgatherlove's recommended reads. Bitter has much more content and esp history than her previous books, and goes into some of the plants we've been mentioning here, traditional use of wild plants, medicinal plants older generations used as part of their cooking, and bitters (the drink). I think they used to use bitters to stimulate bile secretion; I wonder if that's true/was tested? I don't know anyone who drinks bitters now (irl), but it used to be a normal part of a large meal, I think.
The book has more of a Western European flavor (mostly France, Italy, Britain), though she mentions TCM.

Here's some of the bibliography:,%202012.pdf
^These are mostly about ethnobotany and ethnopharmacology . . one of the things the book discusses is how average people had this knowledge and used it in their cooking/medicine. Using wild plants used to be very normal.

Anonymous said...

peanut oil is correlated to atherosclerosis iirc so probably no reason to eat peanuts ever.

Anonymous said...

btw, that Mutaflor website says this:

Mutaflor® is a probiotic that comprises as its active substance a viable non-pathogenic strain of Escherichia coli (E.coli). First isolated in 1917 by Professor Alfred Nissle from the faeces of a soldier during the First World War who as he remarked, “in contrast to the large majority of his comrades, had suffered neither from dysentery nor from any other intestinal diseases”. Thereafter, appropriately named Escherichia coli strain Nissle 1917.

Mutaflor® is registered in Australia at AUST R level for the relief and management of chronic constipation. Your healthcare practitioner may also wish to utilise this strain for its pharmacological and metabolic properties.

Characteristics of Escherichia coli strain Nissle 1917.

the ability to colonize
antagonistic activity – Inhibition of growth and or killing of pathogens
anti-invasive – prevention of colonisation in the gut by pathogens
synthesis of endogenous antimicrobial peptides-defensins
mucosal integrity – contributing to luminal metabolism and stability of intestinal milieu-enhanced epithelial barrier function
anti-inflammatory and immunomodulatory effects
stimulation of colonic mucosa

The therapeutic effects of Mutaflor® are strain specific and have been demonstrated by in-vitro and in-vivo experiments and clinical studies. Mutaflor® Escherichia coli strain Nissle 1917 (EcN) is arguably one of the best studied and field tested probiotic strains and fulfills all the demanding criteria and characteristics required for a medicinal probiotic.

apparently only available in New Zealand or Australia for now so prob not useful to most of your readers....

would be nice if we had a list of all the useful probiotic strains and the costs of each.

also available on Amazon is something called Miyarisan (bacillus butyricus) and its ~$24 for 630 tablets.

Any opinion on the usefulness of that one Dr. BG? it sounds like a butyric acid producer. Not sure what the dosage is but seems pretty inexpensive.

Ashley said...

Mutaflor can be bought in Europe as well.


Dr. B G said...


Thank you for your insights! I have no idea what the threshold is for betanin or betalain pigments. That is totally new to me the gut flora (what isn't???!), iron metabolism or stomach acidity aspects but make total sense (because again everything is interrelated to the gut). It is funny that you bring up heme and its metabolism in the gut. We need chlorophyll and other antioxidants to 'quench' heme which is oxidative (like rust, obviously). It would make sense if the gut is inflamed (as in the modern, disabled gut) then many molecules are not being eliminated appropriate, particularly fecal carcinogens.

MMmmhh... I luv uv luv McLagan's books!!! though I don't own any yet (I used to collect cook books) her new one sounds terribly DIVINE. Do you have an ethnobotany background or just dabble?

Traditionally fermented beers, meads and ales had bitters. ;) I believe these naturally improved digestion and were anti-parasitic whilst also 'sanitizing' drinking water lol. Many of these bubbly bevs had anti parasitic herbs and spices like below:

'Here is a partial list of flavoring agents (mainly herbs and spices) mentioned for meads by Digby: agrimony, angelica root, avens, baulme leaves, bay leaves, bettony, blew-button, borrage, cinnamon, clove-gilly flowers, cloves, dock, eglantine, elecampane, eringo roots, fennel, fruit juice (cherries, raspes, Morrello cherries), ginger, harts-tongue, hopps, juniper berries, limon-pill, liver-worth, mace, minth, nutmeg, orris root, parsley roots, raisins, red sage, rosemary, saxifrage, scabious, sorrel, strawberry leaves, sweet marjoram, sweet-briar leaves, thyme, violet leaves, wild marjoram, wild sage, wild thyme, and winter savory.'

Awesomeness, eh? All wild and home crafted! ETHNOBOTANY and gastrointestinal medicine at their finest at the same time...

Dr. B G said...

Thanks Anon and Ashley!

Ian ~yes I like Mutaflor. We have many beneficial (non enterotoxic or non-hemorrhagic) E coli. This strain as Anon pointed out is superior.

Chris said...

Hi, I discovered your blog- fascinating. I have learned so much in the short time I've been checking it out. A lot of practical information but I'd like to know what you would say to someone like me...I quite a few courses of antibiotics over the course of my life. Over the years I've developed some issues that I know realize am related to the antibiotic usage. How would one go about replacing all that bacteria that was lost? It is true there are things like yogurt but they usually only have a couple of different strains and lack the hundreds that make up the gut. I have read about things such as fecal transplants, which is very interesting. I can see where it would be helpful in theory and I would have no hangups about it. That said, even something like the fecal transplant is heavily regulated and only approved for patients with C Difficile infection--even though many Dr's are simply unwilling to go that route. Since htat is unlikely to change anytime soon is there any alternative for someone such as myself who would like to return back to normal?


Dr. B G said...


That is the loaded question. So many of us are urbanites in no way having easy access to healthy soil teaming with life and organisms from gardens and happy livestock. Most people like have guts that are disabled and amputated missing 1/3 to 1/2 of the species that should be there. Taking prebiotics and probiotics are lovely but not enuf usually. Having access to ancestrally maintained farms and gardens are as good or better than FMTs imho because I've seen many FMTs (not cheap) fail. Root causes need to be ID'd and fixed.

Dr. B G said...


I forgot iherb has many bitters -- they're great! Probably not as good as old fashioned Euro ones

Love this one! lol God, that name cracks me up

Handcrafted Digestif
USDA Organic
Herbal Supplement
Vermont Organic Farmers Certified
Gluten Free

Urban Moonshine is a Vermont company dedicated to health and well-being.
We created Urban Moonshine Bitters to aid digestion because we believe the root of good health is great digestion.
Bitters can be used to relieve bloating, upset stomach and nausea and occasional heartburn, as well as to support liver function and healthy skin.
Our Bitters are formulated from exceptional blends of Vermont herbs and roots, complemented by a few worldly exotics—a delicious, quality medicinal.
To your health and well-being!
—Jovial King

Organic dandelion root and leaf, organic burdock root, organic orange peel, organic fennel seed , organic yellow dock root, organic angelica root , organic gentian root, organic ginger root.

Anonymous said...

Grace and Cat,

Thanks so much Grace, for your wonderfully encouraging blog, and for your kind generosity in responding to our questions and concerns, your deep understanding of digestive health and your unique perspective. You also attract and genuinely appreciate the comments of so many really knowledgeable people.

Thank you Cat, for the info about Hypochondria and beet urea and bitters too.
At risk of sounding like a hypochondriac, I have noticed when I've been sick and thrown up in the last decade or so, that it seemed much worse to be sick when I was younger, because it was so acidic in the throat and mouth. Now not so much. That is the only symptom that I've noticed of lack of stomach acid though.
I'm going to try taking Betaine HCL and the bitters for a while to see if it affects the beet urea.


Cat said...

Dr. BG,
It’s interesting how it does come back to the interaction of various dietary factors. At least the Mediterranean Diet trials are acknowledging this . . You can have your cake and eat it too, as long as you have plants too! (cake being red meat in this context)

I’ve only just recently started looking up ethnobotany studies as I added high fiber plants back into my diet. I was on a modified low residue diet previously: not sustainable. But my family tends to use the more commonly known traditional herbs/herbal teas for minor ailments.

Dandelion vodka is the way to go ;) Citrus zest was used traditionally in desserts too . . I’ve seen some associations with reduced cancer I think.
Check these out:

WAPF has an article on bitters: but the relevant references are mostly books.

I’ve never tried betaine HCl, and I’m not aware of any trials. That recommendation is based on clinical experience of alternative health practitioners, and usually is confounded by use of other herbs and pepsin. I’ve seen some people say it works and others that it did nothing. If it’s the acidity that’s important, vinegar would probably work similarly, and that’s what I’ve seen people use when they were skeptical of betaine HCl. But most practitioners emphasize that taking the pepsin is important, and I’ve seen some people use other protein-digesting enzymes like papain or bromelain instead, and seen results . . . I honestly don’t know, and am just reporting what I’ve observed in others.
Here are some discussions:

Low stomach acid tends to occur in people with skin problems like acne, rosacea, eczema. Another symptom is low iron status despite high iron intake. Beeturia is a possible symptom. I have these symptoms, and my approach is to find out what is causing the low stomach acid, and in the meanwhile, manage symptoms. I plan to apply the diagnostic approach used in this article: and attempt to determine what is probably a gut infection/dysbiosis in my case, via metametrix/organic acid testing (I’m researching them first).

Just increasing acidity may work, but it could be celiac or a gut infection causing damage to the acid-secreting cells, and that requires testing and different methods. (The above is based on my observations/research; I am not a practitioner.)

Anonymous said...

'Low stomach acid tends to occur in people with skin problems like acne, rosacea, eczema.'

That's really interesting Cat. I had acne as soon as puberty hit, and still have not so great skin - mostly clogged pores. I developed a rosacea patch on my cheek a few years ago. I've noticed that with 4 months of RS and probiotics it has faded a little, but still a long way to go.
Looks like bitters are going to have to be the next thing to try!


Cat said...

They used to test for H. pylori (which is implicated in low stomach acid etiology) in rosacea, but those studies never panned out; I think they didn't reach statistical significance. Instead, SIBO turned out to be the major player. And SIBO could be caused by low stomach acid. But eradication may take testing + 7 steps . . I don't know if anyone ever cleared it with just bitters.

Dr. B G said...


For skin have you tried? try version B and soil probiotics:

What is the dose of the GBF? Just 1-2 tbs daily?
DO you consume fermented foods, these have natural acidity too -- kraut, kefir, fizzy kombuch

Cat provided a wonderful discussion. All those may work as well. Low acid states are related to the dysbiosis, which hopefully will improve once the balance and gut flora are reset and thriving again.

Sounds like the beeturia is a good 'litmus' for dysbiosis for some. For 10% the study indicated might be normal. Lola introduced a neat concept!

Dr. B G said...


Are you a fan of ouzo or grappa apertifs? I'll have to try dandelion vodka someday. Do you make your own? Leaves or roots, or both? That sounds heavenly.

Those were magical apertif studies -- definitely the secret in long life is related to these gut effects. In Okinawa, the little tiny 80-90s year ladies drink an equally tiny shot of rice wine every night. It lowers blood pressure and improves inflammation. What they failed to take into account were the acid inducing effects for better digestion! Thanks Cat~!!!

Here's one for ya: red wine (low dose) is a prebiotic and boosts Bifidobacteria, clostridia XIVa and other good symbionts. Not gin (just as those links you had). The amount of C-reactive and triglyercide lowering was proportional to the rise in Bifido.

Good luck with the testing. Knowing what is in the black box and spewing into the blood circulation is ideal. Hopefully later we'll have more advanced testing to ID microbial toxins on skin, organs, etc.

Candida lives simultaneously with H pylori ulcerations or in low acid states often. Acidity and bile alone may not crowd Candida down. Botanicals with anti-fungal activity are helpful.

Anonymous said...

Thanks Cat and Dr BG!

I have been doing your version B, Grace. Probably about 1 tablespoon of GBF, plus smaller amounts of a bunch of different things I swap between - PS, apple pectin, flax, mung bean starch, inulin, acacia, larch.
I've also been doing beet kvass. Really need to get onto sauerkraut and other fermented foods.
Grace, do you think I should increase the amount of GBF?

The link between bifidos and red wine is interesting. How much is a little? One glass?


Dr. B G said...


Wow that's great. The kombucha helps skin because it lowers pathogens and H pylori. The GBF doesn't have much RS2 but has oligos and phytosterols which heal gut permeability.

Which prebiotic have you seen the most results with? How long do you trial or do you mix small amounts together?

The wine study was in healthy controls. I don't know what the results are for slightly permeable guts -- some other studies show that one glass a day increases permeability and SIBO, unfortunately.

Have you done testing? How is the good bifido? Good lacto? Good E coli and Entero? It is possible that the probiotics are not raising the symbionts well enough to weed pathogens and opportunist flora out

Anonymous said...

Dr BG, I wouldn't know which prebiotic is best! They all seem to feed different gut bugs. Whenever I start a new one I just take a small amount and see how I am over the next 24hrs. I learned my lesson when I started introducing other forms of RS. I had been taking PS, and switched to GBF. I assumed that because I had been taking PS, I could take a decent dose of GBF - wrong!

I have been randomly mixing it up every day, but now I am starting to to think of only taking the same one for a few days in a row and steadily increasing it to 2 tablespoons or more (along with psyllium or something to push it along). Then switching to the next one and doing the same. I got the idea after taking a lowish dose of larch for a while, and then the other day I just decided to take quite a bit more than usual (maybe a tablespoon and a half?). I got flu-like symptoms for a day or so which was interesting. So maybe it is worth working up to a large-ish dose of each one to see what happens. Dunno!

Haven't had any testing. That is next on the list.


GUT~MOJO said...

Per usual, abundance of solid information being shared on this thread. Had to time chime in as I've been trying to heal the h.pylori/yeast combo.

"Candida lives simultaneously with H pylori ulcerations or in low acid states often. Acidity and bile alone may not crowd Candida down. Botanicals with anti-fungal activity are helpful."

Is there anywhere I can find literature on the connection between these two beasts and the mini-ulcerations they cause.....or is it based around a common thread of patient case studies? Any specific anti-fungals you like in this case?

"Wow that's great. The kombucha helps skin because it lowers pathogens and H pylori."

Going to bring in more Kombucha due to your input. It seems like this may be the best fermented choice for this combo considering it lowers PH substantially, has anti HP probiotic strains (LB) and anti yeast via s.boulardi. Do you believe in this scenario ferments via kraut,kefir, bucha, etc. are always beneficial due to the benefits mentioned above, or can there be an overabundance if fungal loads are super effing high?

"The GBF doesn't have much RS2 but has oligos and phytosterols which heal gut permeability".

After getting crushed by PS I've been very reluctant to bring in any form of RS2 let alone any fermentable starch. Seems like GBF is a milder prebiotic that may not feed yeast and has less RS2? Gum Acacia (Heather's) may be a solid prebiotic choice considering mastic gum is one of the most referenced antimicrobials for HP. Two different pathologies, one as a prebiotic and the other as an anti-microbial, but maybe there's some kind of synergy?

That would be the ideal and ultimate prebiotic for each individual case......some form of dual action that feeds your starving species and fights your overgrowth. Ah the glory, one pill instead of hours spent in supplement isles relentlessly reading ingredients followed by trying to evaluate exactly how each product is being received by the body!

Thx for the solid info.

Bummed said...

This post must have been written for me. I was having wonderful BMs and then I took PS. It's been downhill from there, I've had watery BMs for longer than I've ever had in my life. I know I have low stomach acid so I guess it's back to the probiotic and HCL drawing board. I am SO SORRY I ate the PS, and pretty upset that I disturbed my apparently already secretly upset bowels. I'm taking some SBOs, drinking kefir (which feels so good hitting the stomach), kraut, kombucha...I guess I'll try a bifido supplement this weekend. Any other suggestions would be great, I'm starting to have a gallbladder attack in the midst of this intestinal distress. As much as I've been enjoying reading about RS2 and 3 and trying to find some way to deal with hypoglycemia once and for all, the PS was not worth it. Damnation!

Dr. B G said...


Join the crowd lol. With the devastation from antibiotics and modern living, our guts really don't have a chance. The last topic later will be autoimmunity -- who hasn't had that?

The gut is a black box and though most don't have outright, loud, blasting effects from raw potato starch, the adverse effects may be silent and devastating. It is optimal to test, stop guessing.

I'm glad our comments here help you! Lola, Cat and Regina are spectacular GUT GODDESSES.

Cat said...

Dr. BG,
Sorry for the late reply.
Strangely for a Pole, I've never been much of a drinker; alcoholic beverages have very low reward value for me. Could be a consequence of what I suspect is leaky gut. So unfortunately I have no experience with making dandelion vodka, though my grandmother used to make it every year.

Interesting about the candida; I have dermal signs of a fungal infection. It seems to decrease in response to either raw carrot or kiwi, strangely. Lola's experience that 3 carrots a day helped her is an interesting parallel. I remember there was a raw carrot craze at one point; I think it's a Ray Peat thing.

Dr. B G said...


For Poles that I know, yes you are odd ;) ahaha lol and I mean that in the bestest way.

Carrots are cool! Hat tip to Eddie and Gemma: carrots contain an antifungal called falcarinol. So does red ginseng. I am not shocked to hear it helps the skin and for Lola. Fungi are the modern malady when in hard ancestral times it was starvation and low vitamin C.

Carrots and beet juices make the bile flow as well. May have dual action for digestion/candida. Most sick GI tracts also are too acidic from dysbiosis. Carrot and other juices produce a healing alkaline effect as well, easing some of the acid-base problems which affect the energetic and enzyme pathways.

Dr. B G said...

Cat~ Also kiwifruit lowers pathogens and increases good lacto and bifido and bacteroides. F praus loves pectin which kiwifruit is rich in.

Microb Ecol Health Dis. 2012 Jun 18;23.
Kiwifruit (Actinidia deliciosa) changes intestinal microbial profile.
Lee YK1, Low KY, Siah K, Drummond LM, Gwee KA.

Kiwifruit is high in pectic polysaccharides and dietary fiber. This study aimed to find out how the ingestion of kiwifruit will affect intestinal microbiota populations, namely Lactobacillus, Bacteroides, Clostridium, Bifidobacterium, and Enterococcus.
Freeze dried kiwifruit (equivalent of two fresh kiwifruits) was given to each of the six subjects daily for four days. Faecal samples were collected before, during and after kiwifruit consumption. The faecal bacteria were enumerated by qPCR and RT qPCR methods.
The effect of the kiwifruit on intestinal microbiota profile varied between individuals; in general, the kiwifruit demonstrated a prebiotic effect of promoting the content of faecal lactobacilli and bifidobacteria (as compared to the baselines of the same individual before consumption) for as long as the fruit was consumed. The effect was however transient, the levels of the two bacteria returned near to that of the baselines upon cessation of consumption.

Anonymous said...

sadly kiwi fruit is a ripoff at the supermkt and also most times at the farmers mkts in my experience. better off to grow it yourself if you have the space as i hear the yields are tremendous. i used to buy direct from a grower in the late 1980's and they would give you big bags - must have been like 5 lbs for a dollar or so. today at walmart its typically 2 or 3 kiwis for $1 or higher. total ripoff. heck, you can buy a fresh whole pineapple for $2.49. much better deal.

Cat said...

Dr BG,
Lol I know I’m a black sheep; it’s cool though, someone needs to be the designated driver (or we just order buses . . that’s what happened at a recent wedding).

Based on my cravings, I do somewhat ascribe to the ‘listen to your body’ concept, similar to the sheep story from a previous comment. Of course, some people crave sugary desserts (particularly Poles . . dentist business is booming hah).

'Fungi are the modern malady' -more so than viruses and bacteria? It's interesting how diseases not considered to be of infectious origin, such as psychiatric diagnoses, may originate in the gut as perhaps infections/dysbiosis.
Of course, the best approach would still also shore up host defense by supporting the immune system via nutrition, lifestyle, and tending the gut flora.

Yeah, kiwis are sadly expensive. I would grow them if I could, but I live in the North . . not sure about indoor growing, since I have no experience with it. I eat mostly New Zealand kiwis. I have a far worse addiction for raspberries, and those really hurt the pocketbook. I just buy frozen, but I wonder if it makes more sense to buy from those pick-your-own places and then freeze them. If I had a taste for blueberries I would forage them myself for free; it’s what my aunt does. I don’t really hear about people going out for wild raspberries though, so I assume they’re less prevalent. Growing my own could work in this case (though not enough to feed my addiction!); then I get the benefits of soil microbes too. Fruit/veg can get a bit expensive, but I know people who really make use of their gardens and have garden greens throughout winter. Gardening is definitely worth it both economically and for its health benefits from sun, soil, and food, even though I don't enjoy it.

Anonymous said...

Why "Steel cut oats"? what's wrong with any gluten free oats? Thank You

Anonymous said...

there's a hardy kiwi that withstands -35 F. not sure if the nutritional qualities are the same though. i think that's the one that you can eat the skin as its more like a grape than the fuzzy type of kiwi.

Rob Hill said...

Dr BG, I've decided to get some testing done as per your recommendations. As I'm in the UK I was going to use the GDX CDSA/P 2.0. However when I looked into it further it stated to stop taking betaine HCl before doing the test (though doesn't mention a time frame). I'm reluctant to do this as I'm currently taking 900mg with each meal and it is the only thing that has made dint in my brain fog. What's you're thoughts - are there any other good tests that will allow betaine usage?
PS Thanks for the blog - it has been a life line.

Dr. B G said...

HEy Rob,

Yes you kinda want to know the baseline function by stopping all supps. I'm one of those that don't advise stopping supps but it is up to you and your person who is 'interpreting'.

Thx for your kind words -- I'm glad you are getting a lot out of it. Please let me know how your progress is! We'll crowd source some of your questions and concerns too. Lotta great gut goddesses and gut gods ;)

Rob Hill said...

Thanks for the reply - I'll get the test arranged (still taking betaine) & share the results.

Dr. B G said...


Don't talk to me about drinking buses LOL too many good/bad memories.

You're super intuitive. That was a fantastic Nature abstract. So all eating disorders may be autoimmune, you are suggesting gorgeous gut grrrrrrl????! ahahah Isn't that the cat's meow?

I love your insights, SO AWESOME: 'Of course, the best approach would still also shore up host defense by supporting the immune system via nutrition, lifestyle, and tending the gut flora.'

"The molecular mechanisms at the origin of eating disorders (EDs), including anorexia nervosa (AN), bulimia and binge-eating disorder (BED), are currently unknown. Previous data indicated that immunoglobulins (Igs) or autoantibodies (auto-Abs) reactive with α-melanocyte-stimulating hormone (α-MSH) are involved in regulation of feeding and emotion; however, the origin of such auto-Abs is unknown. Here, using proteomics, we identified ClpB heat-shock disaggregation chaperone protein of commensal gut bacteria Escherichia coli as a conformational antigen mimetic of α-MSH. We show that ClpB-immunized mice produce anti-ClpB IgG crossreactive with α-MSH, influencing food intake, body weight, anxiety and melanocortin receptor 4 signaling. Furthermore, chronic intragastric delivery of E. coli in mice decreased food intake and stimulated formation of ClpB- and α-MSH-reactive antibodies, while ClpB-deficient E. coli did not affect food intake or antibody levels. Finally, we show that plasma levels of anti-ClpB IgG crossreactive with α-MSH are increased in patients with AN, bulimia and BED, and that the ED Inventory-2 scores in ED patients correlate with anti-ClpB IgG and IgM, which is similar to our previous findings for α-MSH auto-Abs. In conclusion, this work shows that the bacterial ClpB protein, which is present in several commensal and pathogenic microorganisms, can be responsible for the production of auto-Abs crossreactive with α-MSH, associated with altered feeding and emotion in humans with ED. Our data suggest that ClpB-expressing gut microorganisms might be involved in the etiology of EDs."

Dr. B G said...


I know! kiwis are practically 1-2 buckeroos in Shanghai. INSANO


The least processed rolled oats are fantastic -- not the instant rolled oats which are pre-cooked and have more digestible carbs.

GF oats are a little more expensive. Many of the soil probiotics, bifido and other probiotics helps gluten digestion in case of the few parts per million gluten you get exposed to

Anonymous said...

Thank You,

But the Steel cut oats also has to be cooked i think, and become more digestible carbs i guess.

Dr. B G said...

You don't want to eat oats raw unless they are fermented. In Africa it is common to fermented oats for overnight or a couple of days. These break down the phytates and anti-nutrients that bind up iron and other minerals.
Here (and one of my fave songs lol)

The digestible carbs are good ;) RS3 upon cooling or frigerator. Oats have beta glucan (like yeast and shrooms). They bind and activate TH17 which is very important for clearing out Klebsiella and yeasts that we talk about in Part 5 of DON'T F*KC UR GUT WITH POTATO STARCH IF UR GUT IS SICK.

Beta glucan however is a problem with yeast reactions due to cross-reactivity.

fox evv said...

I'd your gut is sick then do what? Eat prescript assist and hope for the best?

Anonymous said...

I'm looking to follow your story, is it chronicled somewhere? My daughter can't eat carbohydrates, vinegar, any sugar. No one seems to know what's wrong.