Monday, September 1, 2014

Neanderthals Mingled for Millenia

There is a new article in Nature about Neanderthals. My previous posts on them: here. I think they're an interesting group which overlapped with both Hss and Homo erectus (aka Java Man, aka Peking Man). I talked a ton about Homo erectus at the AHS14 talk because though we do not apparently have DNA data yet, he had such range and geographic breadth like Neanderthals, that there certainly likely existed co-mingled culture and blood between Hss and Homo erectus. New evidence appears to indicate we shared many things with Neanderthals for several thousand years... and their demise appears staggered over geography and time. I still wonder what diet, lifestyles and climate changes affected their extinction? They were cold adapted, surviving Ice Ages and interglacials. They grew rapidly during maturation and development, even more than there predecessors, almost like a vampirish subspecies. But, apparently something in the warmer climates laid claim to their eventually deaths as an independent native race. It's still a mystery. Too bad gut and intestinal tissues haven't survived the millenia for sophisticated analysis.

The timing and spatiotemporal patterning of Neanderthal disappearance
Part of abstract: The timing of Neanderthal disappearance and the extent to which they overlapped with the earliest incoming anatomically modern humans (AMHs) in Eurasia are key questions in palaeoanthropology1, 2. Determining the spatiotemporal relationship between the two populations is crucial if we are to understand the processes, timing and reasons leading to the disappearance of Neanderthals and the likelihood of cultural and genetic exchange.

Editor's summary
Did anatomically modern humans coexist with Neanderthals? Attempts to answer this question are complicated by the fact that conventional methods of radiocarbon dating become unreliable at just about the time in question: as sample ages approach 50,000 years little carbon-14 is left and it is difficult to obtain accurate measurements. Tom Higham and colleagues have worked to improve sample processing and accelerator-mass-spectrometry radiocarbon dating in order to construct a robust chronology based on the last appearances of the Mousterian tool culture — considered diagnostic for the presence of Neanderthals — from forty sites from Spain to Russia. The results indicate that Neanderthals disappeared at different times in different regions, with a significant overlap with incoming modern humans for around 2,600 to 5,400 years. Rather than a rapid model of replacement, this work suggests a complex picture in which cultural and biological interchange could have occurred between the two groups across a period of several thousand years.


Ilaine said...

Hi Dr. Grace, 23andme tests for Neanderthal genes. My dad was at 99th percentile for people tested. IIRC maybe 3%. Husband and I both around 80th percentile. Too lazy to go to PC and check. We're mostly Western European. I'd be interested to see if other gene stocks had any. My guess is not.

Dr. B G said...


Do you have more grain or dairy tolerance compared to your father?? Any other differentiated tolerances or susceptibilities (or Aspie or spectrum type sensitivities or vulnerabilities)?

I'm like ur daddy (but not my kids -- they're diluted). 98-99th% at 2.9-3%.... hahah!

My ancestry is ZERO EURO genes. Besides Asians, my closest cousins are Nigerians ;) !!!

My suspicion is H erectus and H neanderthalensis travelled, and travelled and spread their seed quite far and wide, but H neanders were more ice loving, hugging only northern parts of Euroasia... Then anatomically modern humans just blew them all away after re-emerging from Africa (eating African fermented foods, soured dairy, marine based foods, omega3 and MEAT MEAT MEAT) lol

Anonymous said...

Hi Dr. Grace,

for some of these probiotic supplements they advertise specific strains, like L. Plantarum 299v (Jarrow) or Bacillus Coagulans Ganeden BC-30 (Schiff) or Saccharomyces Boulardii lyophilized (Florastor) -is it important to get these versions or would the substantially cheaper brands like Swanson or Solaray work fine too?


Dr. B G said...


Strains make a diff and I try to use/advise only the brands that are reputable and also list the strain. 299v and S boulardii are well researched. The other strain you may pubmed or contact manufac for studies if avail. L plantarum has many strains on healthy vegetable surfaces ;) So you can get great ones free in homemade or trusted ferments. Would love to hear what works for you

Anonymous said...

Enjoyed your AHS talk. With all the craze over RS, what are your thoughts on this study:The Link between Ankylosing Spondylitis, Crohn’s Disease, Klebsiella, and Starch Consumption'

By the way 23&me reveled 3.2% Neanderthal, 99% percentile.


Dr. B G said...


Stellar ancestry

I got into how to properly feed and fuel the microbiota and how to restore a healthy biome because I couldn't recover health fully. Sorry cant past but if you google "n=1 dr BG" you'll find my GI stool and urine results (compared with perfect and brilliant Brent pottenger's results)

K pneum is implicated in also hashimotos which I had at 18. It is a frequent offender of SIBO. the problem is that eats RS both raw and cooked as well as ALL digestible starches.

K pneum perpetuates intestinal damage and thus the autoimmune disorders listed -RA AS CD - because it releases an enterotoxic chemical that disconnectes tight junctions in the gut. To halt damage both the TJs need to be repaired and K pneum growth suppressed and crowded out. The SCD and GAPS diet help but for longterm these diets actually are gut damaging because it will drop BOTH butyrate and beneficial symbionts 4 fold per several VLC studies using 16S rRNA analysis.

Weed seed feed is a far better strategy and I've seen it worked beautifully. So RS doesn't need to be avoided if the organisms perpetuating SIBO and SIFO (fungal) are addressed

Anonymous said...

Hi Dr. Liu.

I just started a 6 month ABX protocol(azithromycin, rifampin) for c.trachomatis synovial tissue infection yesterday. My disease(AS and iritis) were triggered by the same CT infection.

After deliberating for years over this, I took an organic acids urine test in which the results recommend VERY similar supplements/adjuncts to the one's listed on Dr. Wheldon's MS protocol, which is partially what made me finally bite the bullet to do this.

I saw the pub med study you referred to in pigs. I don't know if that is effective for synovial tissue or how it could be applied in humans?

I'm desperately trolling the net, changing my name and asking embarrassing questions to anyone that I think can provide valuable insight.

If a leaky gut is sealed, does that deprive the infection of its fuel source?

As you said to Rob, KP is implicated in AS but my stool profile didn't detect any...which also pushed me into thinking that it would/should/could be something else.

If you had a chlamydial infection in your synovial tissue, what would you do?
I react horribly to all foods listed in your "how to cure sibo #2" and I've been avoiding dairy, gluten, nuts, most night shades, alchohol etc etc. for years. I am no better now than what I was 2 years ago.

Any opinions are hugely appreciated.

Dr. B G said...


Which pig citation?

"If a leaky gut is sealed, does that deprive the infection of its fuel source? "
--I don't think so. Bacterial and fungal translocation from the gut to other organs like joints, brain-barrier, synovial tissue, thyroids, etc are subclinical infections. They don't produce fever or other 'obvious' medical signs except general f*qedupness.

The no starch diet is helpfully initially because when CT, CP, K pneum or other implicated organisms flourish with dietary starches, sugar and refined carbs. These foods also open the gut as well as increase pathogenic organisms (which also open the gut).

The purpose of sealing the gut is to stop microbial translocation.

Thx for the protocol link -- I totally concur the prevention of die-off is crucial for well being and limiting the fatigue.

Have you done these? The probiotics? Which brands and doses did you use?

Vitamin C 1G daily
E 800iu daily
Omega 3 fish oil daily
Evening primrose oil 1G daily
Acetyl L-Carnitine 500mg daily
Alpha Lipoic acid 150mg daily
Ubiquinone (Coenzyme Q10) 200mg daily
Selenium 200 micrograms daily.
N-acetyl cysteine 600mg twice daily
melatonin 1.5mg at night may be considered

Did your OAA (organic acid analysis) have yeast metabolites, eg D arabinitol? How much?

Yeast often co-migrates with gut pathogens and translocate to other organs outside of the gut. Yeasts predominate often immediately after a single course of antibiotics. Certain genetic predisposition (neanderthal blood??! lol) make this more likely to happen.

I used this below with some success with other anti-candida strategies. The bacillus probiotics are really exceptional! You need to fully seed the gut after weeding for long term success. Are you around farms? Do you eat mostly organic vegetables, meat and eggs from trusted farms, eg trusted mud and manure?

Unfortunately that might be difficult depending on your toxin and stress burden. My practice is opening soon, contact me if you need further help.

Anonymous said...

Hey Grace!

Good info as always!

Quick question: I can see how RS 2 (i.e., tubers, some fruits) played an important part of the diet of many of our ancient ancestors, but what about RS3? Is there any evidence that they consumed RS3 in any noticable quantity?

Hope you can shed some light on this, and hopefully direct me towards some papers/studies on RS3 consumption in the paleolithic.


Dr. B G said...


Both RS2 and RS3 are found in bones via carbon isotopes -- we just don't know for sure which.

Please let me know if you find direct evidence!


Anonymous said...

Thanks for replying!

But how would paleo man get RS3 through the diet?

As I understand, tubers and other plants high in RS generally play/played the most substantial part of the diet in H-G tribes that live/lived in warmer climates. They clearly don't/didn't have access to refrigerators that allowed them to store cooked or roasted food, which results in starch retrogredation.

If we look at someone like the Hadza, tubers are an important part of their diet, but most of their RS intake is probably from RS2 (From what I understand they tend to lightly roast the tubers over a fire before consuming them)

Again, thanks for taking the time!

Anonymous said...

This is the citation;

I've followed the no starch diet(with iodine dropper) for 3-4 months. I felt it made me react even more violently to starchy foods and even non-starchy foods that I had no issues with before(eg. full fat yogurt, egg whites) upon re-introduction.

My naturopath and I assumed I have SIBO and candida based on my abx and auto immune history and the link you provided via twitter.

I have been taking all of those supplements on the wheldon protocol since starting my abx proto.

I take interphaseplus 1st thing in the morn, 30 mins later I take nystatin. 1 and a half hours later I take one AOR pro 3, two caps hmf forte l. acdphls. 1-2 hours later I'll eat "breakfast" with rifampin and azith. 4 hours before bed I switch up and do combos with 1tbs pstarch, 1 tbs plantain and/or banana flour. I add custom probiotics 11 strain, one of two natren products,(bifido factor or life start) one cap prescript assist and I've stopped taking primal defense or anything that contains saccharomyces spp. as it was a +3 on my gdx stool test. Naturopath thinks it's not an issue.

I have a tinge of ginge in my beard, fair skinned and am incredibly funny looking ;) So, yes, probably neanderthal.

D arabinitol score on my Org acds is/was 8.

Kind of, organic grass fed/finished red meats, organic but not pastured chickens and egg yolks. 50% of veggies are organic from farmer's market Not much in the way of dirt as I live in a shoebox apartment but I did horribly fail at balcony gardening.

I need to buy more pro b's and will order the ones you listed.

I paid 1000$ for my org acids and gdx 2200 tests and not even one doctor has taken a look. Now that I'm on abx, I assume they're almost useless?

I do need further help and would feel much better about myself if you could be compensated through your practice. At the moment, I feel like a mooch asking questions that probably benefit nobody but me.

Thank you either way

Dr. B G said...


is that an urban or paleo myth "(From what I understand they tend to lightly roast the tubers over a fire before consuming them)" lol??!

Moochy Ginger

Yeah pls contact me and if you don't mind we can use your blinded GDX on Scoop on ur Poop later perhaps.

The antibiotics undoubtedly will annihilate your baseline biota -- particularly the marginal good symbionts, but hopefully the probiotics and prebiotics can protect and shield them somewhat. Do you live in the middle of nowhere? At least Whole Foods and farmer's markets now stock fermented foods in case you cannot successfully produce on ur own

Dr. B G said...

The E faecium pig study has awesome results because they were likely never on high dose, multiple courses of antibiotics (just low dose lol chronically). But we can hope that with gut shifting, pre/probiotics (+organic root vegetables, ferments, L plantarum) we can begin to mimic some of the results.

Anonymous said...


I forgot to mention that yes, I do make my own kraut(your hot pink kraut recipe) and have been for a while now. I mix it up by buying different kinds of ferments from whole foods when I'm out of my own.

My back was really bothering me for the first couple/few days on abx but woke up feeling amazing this morning! I have played hockey the last 3 out of 4 nights and expected the usual post-hockey painful slither out of bed. No pain at all today, though! My left eye(iritis eye) still has some twitchy pulsation action but its nowhere near a true iritis flare.

I've sent you an email with my details and test results.

Thank you again for your time and help.

Anonymous said...

Burning eyes is a sign of fungus problems?

all these things i thought were just my imagination turn out to be real. :(

Anonymous said...

btw Mooch, gardening is easy. Just have to get the right mix of compost to steer manure to soil and then add things like kelp and organic fertilizers in the right doses. Also, there are several diff kinds of compost and its best to include some that is made primarily of a sawdust type, which allows aeration of the soil and holds water as well. It makes for excellent an excellent soil structure and the plants thrive on it.

Dr. B G said...

Hi Ginger,

Thx -- ok got it. Hopefully the re-seeding and weeding are working. That is great to hear progress!


Thx for the gardening tips -- the poop is the same! It loves structure from non-compostable cellulose and other insoluble fiber and all the goodies:mud, manure-y organisms in right doses.

Anonymous said...

Thank you as well for the gardening tips. The sun is quickly disappearing here in Vancouver but I'll try your suggestions on some indoor herbs and veggies.

Progress/placebo? As long as I'm feeling better, right?

Thanks both,


Dr. B G said...

From Paul Mellars (who writes about Paleo fertility sex symbols)

Neanderthals and the modern human
colonization of Europe