Wednesday, January 22, 2014

Two Case Studies -- Diarrhea-IBS and Constipation-IBS and GI Fx Stool Test: Overgrowth of Pathobiont Klebsiella, Fungi Rhodotorula and super-low commensal Clostridia

Here is a functional medicine case -- 5 year old austic boy with constipation-IBS (credit: GDX Diagnostics)

Klebsiella oxytoca + Fungal Rhodotorula
Small Intestine Overgrowth
Credit: GDX Diagnostics

Buttloads of Butyrate flooding the whole body

Per GDX/Metametrix:
  • Here we find an even more severe overgrowth of K. oxytoca. Note that the assay is able to keep on  counting target genomes over many orders of magnitude. Here the oxytoca is present at 1.48 x 109 /gm, and  this child also shows concurrent extremely high levels of Rhodotorula sp. Incidence of Rhodotorula in our results is higher that from culture techniques, probably because it is identified microscopically, but grows poorly in usual culture media. 
  • Plenty of metabolic activity is shown by the abundant SCFA and balanced percentages. Note the normal level of Lactoferrin, showing lack of inflammatory involvement currently in this patient with very active IBS due to profound microbial overgrowth. The immune barrier is weakened as shown by low sIgA. 
  • Antibacterials and antifungals according to sensitivities. Immune support with glutamine (consider colostrums) and glutathione. Investigate food intolerances to lower the loading of GALT 

My assessment from the data on the GI FX stool test:
  1. Overgrowth of pathobiont Klebsiella oxytoca (likely including small intestinal location)
  2. Fungal overgrowth of Rhodotorula
  3. Low commensal Clostridia (should be MUCH MUCH higher)
  4. Low fecal sIgA (immunocompromised)
  5. SUPER HIGH BUTYRATE and other SCFAs (because a SUPER BOWL FERMENTATION PARTY is going on in the small intestines and possibly colon due to inappropriate bacterial overgrowths)
  6. Poor mood, poor sleep, possible anxiety secondary to dysbiosis-related failure of tryptophan to be synthesized to serotonin and serotonin to melatonin. 80-95% of serotonin are produced in the gut.  Dysbiosis affects gut conversion of tyrosine to dopamine.

C-IBS needs tons of weeding weeding weeding......................................

And replenishment and repopulation of SBO commensals/fermented foods, basically the 7-Steps to cure intestinal permeability and SIBO/SIFO, small intestine bacterial and fungal overgrowth.

How does this occur? After a round of gastroenteritis or antibiotics, the commensal organisms and fungi that safeguard our gut domain are reduced in number. The pathogenic strains emerge without these.  Soon yeasts, fungi and aggressive bacterial take root in places that are normally kept clear. The small intestines are a frail target -- only one cell layer thick.  Full of moisture, oxygen, intermittently constant food, and a rich blood supply.  Once fungi or bacterial take hold, food can no longer be digested well.  The GI barrier becomes broken down.

For the host, bloating or brain fog are frequent symptoms.

Here are my thoughts on the spectrum of hyper-permeability/leaky gut/SIBO/SIFO symptoms:

(a) Mildly Intolerant (gas, bloating, constipation, diarrhea, heartburn, ulcers, mental fog, cavities, enamel defects, nutritional deficiencies, anemia, vitamin B12 deficiency, hair loss, low thyroid, food cravings)

(b) Moderate (depression, anxious, allergies, ADHD, autism/spectrum, cardiovascular disease, Type 2 diabetes, osteoporosis, bone fractures, PCOS, fibroids, miscarriages, nerve pain, seizures, joint arthritis)

(c) Severe (failure to thrive, weight loss, weight gain, rashes, mood swings, infertility, migraines, bloody stools, bipolar, psychiatric disorders, alcoholism, cancer, autoimmune diseases, T1DM, celiac, rheumatoid arthritis).

In autism and other spectrum conditions, the gut-brain axis is broken.  In many cases, autism is reversed once the gut is fixed and no longer spilling out undigested food particles (gluten, casein) which resemble body proteins and other proteins of microbial origins.  In this case, like many spectrum cases, both bacterial and fungal overgrowths are present and the absent of commensals such as Clostridia. The problem in this C-IBS (constipation dominant IBS) case is not insufficient butyrate, but actually food fermenting excessively in the small intestines by 'regular/good' bacteria in the inappropriate place. Once a commensal grows aggressively, it can switch to a pathobiont status, exploring and invading an ecological niche.

One of the benefits of the 7-Steps to cure SIBO/SIFO that it is aligned to our ancestral heritage and tight association with the soil and abundant earth.  The earth not only feeds us with crops and herds but is the 'horticulture' that also provide wonderful organisms that serve to maintain the 'lawn of our gut' by weeding, weeding and weeding [hat tip: Brent Pottenger and here is his stellar gut GDX GI FX testing].

The benefits of SBOs (soil based organisms) are:
--they are the key apex predators that control the growth of smaller critters and predators in the gut ecosystem
--weed out and decrease populations of pathogens
--secrete antifungals
--secrete antimicrobials
--tighten up loose intestinal junctions in hyper-permeability
--eat fiber (soluble, insolube fiber and resistant starches)
--provide food and gases for bottom feeders
--ferment fiber into butyrate which is an antimicrobial
--make butyrate which is a potent agonist for GPR41 receptors which immunomodulate and control inflammation
--improve immunity which improve food intolerances, asthma/allergies and (for me) gluten and dairy allergies
--associated with reversed autoimmune diseases (prior animal pharm)

Case Study (Credit: FTA):

Alex W. 
I’d like to add a success story here. Last August, just a week after starting graduate school, I came down with an intense bout of IBS-D (to keep it clean). Not unusual, as I’ve had the flu before. But this ‘flu’ did not stop, and stranger things began to happen. I developed tinnitus, neuropathy, dizziness, fatigue, muscle twitches and my sleep was terrible. 6 weeks later, I had lost 25 pounds (that I didn’t need to lose) and I was barely able to get out of bed. A colonoscopy, endoscopy, stool examination, countless blood tests and specialists later and still no answers. I took a medical leave from my program, and had to return to my home in California because I was no longer able to take care of myself.
It was around this time that I began experimenting with SCD and GAPS style diets. They did prove to help with some symptoms, but not all, and not with much speed. In fact, I would say that I got worse on these diets, as my sleep became a struggle, and that set everything back. Supplements like Vitamin C, Colostrum and DGL helped but were definitely not the answer, either. It was late December, and I had to make the call whether or not I was going back to school. I decided to go back out of desperation for wanting to be better, without really having made any progress. Not a wise decision, but I got lucky.
It was just two weeks ago, just at the start of the semester, that I began to follow the advice of Dr. BG over at Animal Pharm blog on correcting SIBO, as well as the advice here about resistant starch. I am so, so glad to say that I am 90% back to normal. My tinnitus is almost gone, my muscle twitching is nearly gone, my sleep is incredibly better. I can finally go back to teaching and researching without fears of passing out in the middle of class. The two biggest factors in my success was the inclusion of properly prepared starches (in Perfect Health Diet amounts) and supplementing with potato starch and psyllium husk twice a day.
I can’t speak for all the other successes and failures when it comes to variable carb intakes, potato starch supplementation and general paleo-style eating, but it worked for me. So thank you Tim, Rich, Grace and everyone else who’s been posting about this stuff. I’m not shitting you (har har) when I say that you saved my young life.

Have you had success with the 7-Steps?
What are the challenges?
Are you seeing improvements and optimization of gut/brain/muscle/genitalia??

I can't wait to hear your stories...


NJ said...

Hi Dr BG,
Thank you for this blog post! I'm new and researching. I've been following a paleo diet (high good fats, high protein, lower carbs, gluten free, no grains, no legumes, yes on dairy and eggs, fruit, very little sugar)for over a year, but currently I'm on week 3 of a 21 Day Sugar Detox (D. Sanfilippo) where I have been eating a lot more veggies than normal, also juicing a few times a week (green drinks, kale, etc.) I've not been happy with my BM for a long time now, really soft, I know something is not right, but after the sugar detox I've had severe diarrhea off and on for the past 2 weeks, my 5 year old daughter did as well - she eats the same as me. (She had the 24 hour flu last week, though, so I attributed her diarrhea to that).

Also, I broke an old mercury thermometer in early December in my house - yes, my daughter was here at the time but in a different room until I cleaned it up. Did I take precaution with a mask and gloves, No I just cleaned it up.

Other than this BM situation, I feel good - I work out 6 days a week, I have energy, I sleep great 8 hours every night, I rarely drink alcohol, I eat clean, My weight is perfect, body fat good, No bloating at all - flat tummy, I have no health problems at all, but I know that all is not well in my gut because of my BM. I've searched a lot of blogs leading me to this one and I just started taking Potato Starch yesterday for the first time 1T - which made me gassy and my ProBiotics from Prescript Assist are on the way. I am going to continue to up my vegetable intake as well. Based on what I've read, I think my gut is alkaline from the paleo.?. Can you please tell me if this is all that I need to start with, or should I do more? Also, with regards to my daughter (5 yrs), can I give her Potato Starch and the Prescript Assist as well? How much of a dosage? Do we need to do a clay supplement to "weed" the small intestines too? Heavy metal detox?? Not sure where to start and continue. Thank you for your response and this fantastic resource! NJ

Tim Steele said...

Hi, Grace!

Looking at case study #1, any idea why the n-butyrate is so high?

The % of butyrate, propionate, and acetate are all normal, but total SCFA and n-butyrate really high. How can that be?

Next dumb question: What is the diff between n-butyrate and butyrate? Anybody? I can't find a good explanation anywhere.

Tim Steele said...


Unknown said...

Tim, I believe n-butyrate is the wrong kind of butyrate and a precursor of butanol, probably a gut damaging, inflammatory solvent. Clostridium make butanol and acetone when pH is low (acidic), but they make prized butyric acid and acetate when pH is higher (alkaline). It's possible the klebsiella are producing n-butyrate, but perhaps more likely it's a product of yeast overgrowth.

This autistic child seems to present opposite of studies showing high clostridium and low prevotella in autism. Bacteroides are known to help in autism. I would bet this child has been on a ketogenic diet where meat shifts flora by forming nitroso compounds which kill clostridia (my own theory as of last week; that's right, meat damages gut flora). Others would say it's the lack of fermentable carbs in the diet lowering clostridia which makes the colon more alkaline, allowing Bacteroides overgrowth. But I think the meat leads to a more acidic gut and the the toxic nitroso compounds along with oxygenated acidic chyme enter the colon and wreak havoc, raising Bacteroides associated with colon cancer. Clostridium don't like oxygen which meat raises. Prevotella are a type of Bacteroides associated with grain fermentation, so I'm not sure why they would be high on a ketogenic diet, but maybe it's due to low clostridium. Propionate is fairly high, product of Actinobacteria such as bifidobacteria, a good thing were it not for leaky gut where it becomes neurotoxic in the autistic brain.

I'd put the child on OptiMSM and bee propolis to kill the fungi and raise alkalinity and I'd ask Grace to take care of the klebsiella by getting really small and crawling in there with a little shotgun. I've read conflicting studies about autism having high and low butyric acid.

Unknown said...

I'd also put this child on niacinamide (vitamin B3) as antimicrobial via strengthening the innate immune system, raising NAD to fuel ATP and get cells working by jump-starting the Krebs cycle.

Perhaps RS would help in cultivating commensal clostridium (alliteration intended). Or, might it feed the problem? I was troubled to read about people suffering joint pain while using RS on the recent Free the Animal blog. What's going on there? Might RS be contraindicated in some folks? Or, just used in the right sequence, i.e., after antimicrobials and raising innate immunity?

This is interesting recent stuff about B. fragilis (Bacteroides associated with meat digestion) helping in autism. But why are these Bacteroides low? Because Firmicutes (mainly clostridium) are high. It's about the Firmicutes/Bacteroides ratio. That's why I suspect the child has been on a ketogenic diet, but the pathogens are still out of control.

Unknown said...

Tim, I think I'm wrong about n-butyrate being the wrong kind of butyrate. Forgive me for learning aloud. I think it's actually the same thing as butyrate. What the chart seems to be saying is that butyrate is very high, but as a percentage of SCFA, it's relatively lower than acetate and propionate. Remember we talked about having high butyrate as damaging? Too much of a good thing. I thought clostridia were responsible for most butyrate production, but here it appears to be coming from another source or the testing falls short in detecting the clostridium clusters IV and XIVa responsible for most of our butyrate. Several types of microbes can produce butyrate.

"The butyrate producers include members of the genera Eubacterium, Fusobacterium, Anaerostipes, Roseburia, Subdoligranulum, Faecalibacterium, and other cultured genera, which have not yet been given genus names."

Anonymous said...

Hello Dr B grace and Tim Steele!

I just wanted to say that I love the research that you guys, aswell as Richard Nikoley (at FTA-where I first read about resistant starch) are doing! Reading many of the positive comments, from blog readers, of their experiences with PS (+ P.Husk + ORAC) I'm just hoping many autoimmune conditions can be resolved.

Saying that, I wanted to get your opinions about possibly "curing" Type 1 Diabetes (T1DM), following the 7 step to cure intestinal permeability (IP) + SIBO/SIFO.

I'm 27 years of age, and I was diagnosed as T1DM when I was 12. Looking back at things now, I had many 'leaky gut/IP' symptoms:

-I remember, as a young teenager (not long after becoming T1DM) and into adulthood, sweating profusely. I was considering getting surgery for hyperhidrosis- BUT I'm thankful I didn't because very recently when I began supplementing with heaps of camu camu powder the sweating subsided drastically.
-I had the most HORRIFIC acne known to mankind (lol). I had severe facial, back, arm, thigh and chest acne which, again, began several years after my diagnosis (none of my other non-diabetic 6 siblings had this trouble). The acne still persisted into adulthood where I was put on x2 rounds of Roaccutane (the US Accutane).
-I still, unfortunately, have severe hairloss from the age of 12-its just an all round diffused loss, rather than patches of hairloss.
-I developed what looked like "eczema" skin patches on certain parts of my body
-I had dandruff, possibly psoriasis on the scalp.
-Much later into adulthood, I developed multiple food allergies. At that time, I just didn't understand where this latest health problem arose (again, I have 6 siblings none of them had/have any food issues). This thankfully resolved once I went gluten free and added things such as probiotics, bone broth & saturated fat
-Also, I had the most intense painful period pains, which gradually subsided once I, also, went GF and added the above
-I did have a few grey hairs and I'm only 27. Many have since fallen out!! :)
-Only in the last few years have I had a few cavity issues

So, looking at the above, Im sure no doubt that it all points to leakygut/IP, right?
As I mentioned previously, I did manage to resolve a few of my health issues with probiotics & bone broth (menstrual pain, allergies, headaches). This was before I discovered Bionic Fibre btw, so I'm hoping now with the fibre many of my other health issues will eventually go too.

(Part 2 in the next post, this is too long of a comment, sorry)

Anonymous said...

Part 2:

I do feel diabetes (Type 1) originates in the gut. The closest to what would be deemed a cure, is in this video of Dr Natasha McBride describing how 'healing and sealing' the gut (which is what you guys are all about too!!) made many of her young T1DM patients stop using insulin (she did mention specifically about a case study of hers, a young boy with T1DM, who after following her GAP diet protocol was able to reduce his insulin requirements drastically, but the young boy & his family moved away, so she had no further contact from them-although that anecdote isn't in this particular video, there is another video of the same presentation, which mentions this):

Once theres much wider interest in the Science field, I do hope that there is some sort of a revision or an add-on to the GAPs diet which would include a stage; once after doing the intro and full diet a stage where the 'Bionic Fibre' is used. lol, because as you've said previously, Tim, fermentable fibres seem to be missing from many of the autoimmune diets.

I wanted to ask, DR Grace and Tim:
-Do you have many T1DM folks embarking on this 7-step plan?
-Have you had T1 diabetics messaging you about their possible reduction in insulin requirements (I'm not referring to the P.Starch secondary meal affects, moreso with what Dr Natasha McBride mentions, i.e healing and sealing the gut, which will eventually lead to reduced insulin use)?
-Or is 7 step/Bionic fibre still in its infancy (which would mean could I be the first adult T1DM to "cure" diabetes!!! lol)?
-Oh and one more thing, is it actually possible for folks who have had autoimmune conditions for many years, to actually resolve their health completely? I mean if the body is regenerating itself, and you finally address the allergens/toxins and remove them; then surely.....?

Anyway, I'd love to hear your feedback.


Anonymous said...

Dr. BG,

I have results from a GI Fx Stool Test and wondered if I could hire you to review and prescribe a treatment. My doctor said everything looked "normal" but now I know that I've got some things out of balance.

Please let me know.


Anonymous said...

I should also say that I'm incredibly grateful for your sharing all of this information! You are so dang smart!!!! And so are your readers :) Tim included.

I also find it so sad that most doctors don't have a clue about this stuff.

I will admit that I'm overwhelmed at all the info here and could use some guidance :) so hoping you can take a look at my test results too.



Tim Steele said...

Hi, Anna - Call me optimistic, but I definitely think you can heal all your issues with a focus on the gut.

Steve Cooksey at is doing great as a T2 diabetic and has some T1D's experimenting, with what looks like good results.

If you want my opinion, don't focus on the potato starch or any other step to the exclusion of the rest. Especially take some time to get exercising and also learn to make good fermented foods. I've learned a lot in the last few months, and both those steps are vital to all this.

Same with RS. Potato starch can make you lazy--learn to cook and eat all those weird tubers and starchy veggies everybody ignores. Visit an oriental grocery and ask questions. Learn to dry out green plantains.

Get a good variety of probiotics. Especially those funky soil-based ones. It's almost time to start thinking about a garden--if you have some dirt out back, get some seeds and grow something. Just digging in the dirt is extremely therapeutic--maybe that should have been a step!

But you are right, T1D is definitely gut related. Treat those gut bugs right and see if you can get them working for you instead of against you.

I have seen several reports from T1D's who have started dropping insulin after doing most of these steps. I hope you find similar results!


Tim Steele said...

Keith - Good info, thanks.

Eve - Thanks for the compliment, hopefully Grace will get with you soon on your questions, i'm no expert in that area.

Anna - Forgot to mention, check this guy out:

A guy who seems to have cured Ankylosing Spondylitis, a 100% gut bug related AI disease with Safe Starches! AS patients are normally put on a zero starch diet. Sometimes you gotta do the exact opposite of what they tell you.

Also a lovely lady in her 60's who seems to also be curing AS with RS on FTA.

Read the PHD account, and do what he did, but add some good probiotics, RS, and do everything you can for your gut and see what happens.

Anonymous said...

Tim, you are an expert on RS :) so was hoping you could answer a few questions...

From what I could gather, it's best to take 1 TB of RS with 1 tsp psyllium and 1 tsp of green powder or antioxidant powder after each meal with 1 SBO capsule. Is this correct?

Do you need to "soak" the psyllium? And how would you do this?

Also, I have the Amazing Grass Wheatgrass Powder and I think it tastes really bad. LOL! Is that the one you guys like to use?

If I take HCL or digestive enzymes with my meal, would that harm the RS concoction?

I started taking just the RS, green powder and Prescript Assist (waiting on psyllium), and I have MAJOR gas. This sounds like it's par for the course :) but does it get better as your gut heals?

Lastly, did you take stool tests before and after this process? Would love to hear your before and after RS story and what you do today in terms of dosage.

Thanks so much!!!


Tim Steele said...

Hi, Eve - I'll take the compliments anytime! Thanks.

On RS, Psyllium, and green powder. Here's the deal. These three things are synergistic, use your own intuition based on discomfort to properly dose. I know that may sound confusing, but if you are getting gas--it's probably the RS, so back off a bit. With psyllium, it can cause constipation or stomach upset, but the same properties that cause those, also help it interact with the RS to ensure it gets further along the colon to do most good. The green powder is 'high ORAC' meaning it's an antioxidant and also have polyphenols and flavonoids that also feed gut bugs.

SO, with all that in mind, attempt to use these three things together as best you can. If it doesn't agree with you, stop and rethink what you are doing--cut the RS in half, stop the psyllium, find a better flavored green powder.

This is the ORAC powder I like:

And, yes, if you mix your probiotics with the RS, you will have better success getting them to survive in your gut.

An easy way to do all this, is to buy a big tub of plain greek yogurt (or make your own!) and mix your potato starch, psyllium, and probiotics in it, along with anything else you like (cocoa powder for me). You may need a bit of water or milk to water it down if it becomes too thick.

Drink the ORAC powder whenever you like, I don't think it's super important to take everything all at once if it doesn't fit your schedule.

For me, I have evolved into eating tons of RS rich foods every day. I prepare beans, rice, and potatoes ahead of time and store in fridge or freezer until ready to eat. On days I slack on the starches, I'll have a scoop of potato starch in some yogurt, or just mixed w/water. This keeps me very regular, sleeping great, and energetic.

Don't soak the psyllium husk. But do go easy on it and drink plenty of water.

As for probiotics, get some AOR Probiotic-3, it has the soil-based bugs that are hard to get. Also get any other that has several strains of Lactobacillus and Bifidobacteria.

The enzymes won't hurt anything, keep taking them if you like them.

I did an American Gut stool test afterwards, I wished I'd of had a 'before' but there ya go. Anyway, my results showed amazing diversity of gut flora, tons of bifidobacteria and no e.coli or any other known bad guys, indicating a gut low in pH and very healthy.

Anyway, good luck to you, hope I answered everything.

If the gas is really bad and persists more than a couple weeks, taper waaaaaay back on the RS and take the other stuff for a couple weeks, while getting RS from real food.

ALSO, please get a good exercise program going if you don't have one...the gut motility is huge!

Good luck to you!

Anonymous said...

Thanks Tim! Do you know if Prescript Assist is still good? I ordered a butt load. I'll look into that AOR Probiotic -3 and that green drink :)

That's awesome that you just get RS through food now. Did you have bowel issues before?

I haven't started the psyllium but seem to be constipated from the RS. Does that happen in some people? I'll dial back. I was doing 3 TB a day.

In my stool test I have high butyrate but also high Total SCFA and n-butyrate so definitely have some SIBO. My lacto strains are high but the bifos are low.

So hoping this will help!

Oh, with the 10,000 steps a day... does it have to be fast walking? I have a treadmill desk and walk while I work but it certainly isn't at a fast clip. It takes me about 2 hours to get my 10,000 steps in.

Thanks! Eve

Tim Steele said...

Eve - Just walk! Any way you can. Treadmill desk is PERFECT, wish I had one. In fact, taking 2 hours may be better than doing it quicker. I think sitting on one's butt all day is a big cause of gut problems we see. Try walking directly after eating, too, if you can.

I still supplement with potato starch, dried plantains, or banana flour a couple days a week. Hardly anyone ever says they get constipated from PS, in fact I don't know if I've ever heard that complaint.

Prescript Assist is good stuff! Keep taking it.

Get the probiotics going, scale back on the PS for a couple weeks, than maybe increase to 2-4TBS a day for a while, or even just intermittently while you get your diet worked out. I hope you are not a Low Carber! You'll be needing some good starchy carb sources going forward.

I had really bad bowels for years thanks to lots of military rations of powerful antibiotics for international travel, for some reason they didn't want me to catch Anthrax and decided the best way was to destroy my entire gut flora...go figure.

Did your stool test show any other 'H' things?

Good luck! Don't be worrying about your weight while making these changes. Get your gut right, then work on those extra pounds if you have them. Too many guts destroyed by dieting--ask Grace!

Anonymous said...

1) why did you change from Amazing Grass to Paradise?

2) does it have to list that its SBO on the label?

Tim Steele said...

1) why did you change from Amazing Grass to Paradise?

2) does it have to list that its SBO on the label?

I was just playing around with different brands and flavors. I haven't made up my mind which one is best, Grace still likes the Amazing Grass, I think.

I don't think it will say SBO specifically, sometimes they are called HSOs (Homeostatic Soil Orgs).

The AOR Pro-3 that Grace is so crazy about has these in it:

Streptococcus faecalis, Clostridium butyricum, and Bacillus mesentericus

I know she really likes the middle one (C. butyricum) in fact, they should probably get a room, she likes it that much.

There may be others with these in them, but try to get the C. Butyricum if at all possible. There is lots of good stuff written about it and nothing bad. It produced butyrate, so that's a plus. It's exact actions are a bit of a mystery, but it's health benefits are not.

Anonymous said...


The treadmill desk is a game changer! It is SO AWESOME! Highly recommend. Save up to get one :) You won't be sorry!

I'm looking for a company that sells dried plantain chips cooked in coconut oil. They have those everywhere in places like Belize, Peru, etc. but all I can find here are cooked in bad vegetable oils :(. Do you make yourself? Ooo, I also saw a post on Tiger Nuts over on Free the Animal. Want to try! Sound delish!

I'm currently not a low carber... lol! I did try the Paleo diet and ended up eating way too many nuts/fruits since I couldn't do the carbs. Now, I've added back in soaked lentils, some rice, white potatoes, and quinoa, etc. I also in my distant past went on a VLC/ketogenic diet for about 7 months. I excluded grains, fruits, dairy, nuts, seeds and pretty much just ate non-starchy veggies, meat and eggs and a ton of fat. I didn't notice much difference in health either way so go figure. Nowadays, I usually clock in at 150-200 grams of carbs a day (without fiber deductions). I'm also breastfeeding right now so lots of carbs are good :) You've got to feel great for contributing to the Paleo movement with resistant starch! Brilliant!

Good advice on RS/probiotics. I stopped taking everything and will get the probiotics going... then slowly add the RS... then psyllium and see how it goes.

I didn't have any pathogenic bacteria, or yeast, or H stuff but I did have pinworms! ECK! I treated those with garlic pills, re-tested and they were gone.

Having said that, I still have "yeast" issues (I had a mild case of athlete's foot over summer, I tested positive for Group B Strep when pregnant (didn't with first), and like I said my SFCA was HIGH, which can mean a fermentation partee.

A lot of my troubles came when I started on the Ray Peat diet... tons of fruit/fructose, no grains, very little fiber and tons of milk. WOW, that one messed me up. All in the name of trying to heal my thyroid. I'm so over it! Just want to feel better and move on. It's been exciting to see the testimonials of people that have tried RS and the 7 step protocol. We shall see if it's a good fit for me. I agree with Hippocrates that all disease begins in the gut and hoping this can heal all things :) LOL!

Thanks for listening :)

Jan said...

Hi Eve and Tim, too of course!

Had to validate your Ray Peat experience. I was VLC&LC Paleo for almost 2 years while trying to clean up my diet due to a Hashimoto's diagnosis. Went organic, gluten free, lots of meat, veg, nuts, fats and felt good...until I didn't! Then I read PHD and added in some safe starches, mostly rice and yams, and did feel better. Along came Ray Peat, Danny Roddy, Matt Stone and I went down a path of milk, cheese, oj, gelatin...lots of carbs in the form of various sugars. I have to say, at first I did feel warmer, somewhat better energy and then blood sugar swings and digestion problems, it was a nightmare. Maybe a 20-something crossfitter can eat that way, but I ended up with SIBO and about a 10lb weight gain. Also, I got terrible joint pain in my hand, couldn't bend my thumb. It took months to go away. I did that eating for about 4 mos and then shifted back to LC Paleo with keeping white rice daily. I had to get back to "center" and get my gut healed.

I have to admit when I read the RS/PS stuff at FTA, I though oh no, this is like the Ray Peat rabbit hole. But in my reading, research and some experimenting, I saw some positive results with Dr. BG's gut protocol. Since I most likely have slow motility, I only take PS/probiotics in the morning to be sure they have time to move through the SI. I eat fermented foods and follow Tim's prep methods for rice and potatoes. I take SBO's and use Amazing Grass wheat grass powder for my greens with coconut water kefir. So far results are positive. Btw, I only take 1-2tbsp PS and I eat rice. I do not take any fiber, as my gut is healing but I do eat low fodmap cooked vegetables, meat and eggs, no fruit. As I heal, I will expand to fresh fruit and veggies hopefully by summer when it's all in season!

Anonymous said...


Sorry you went through the Ray Peat experience but also validating that I'm not the only one! I followed that path for 8 months :( and I'm STILL dealing with the effects. That was over a year ago! Boo!

Aw, well... live and learn.

Can you share what Tim's prep advice is on potatoes and rice?


Anonymous said...

Dear Grace and Tim,
I have resolved my slow digestion and sleep issues by using your protocol. However, I still have severe food intolerances (like wine, dairy, sugar). I think I should "weed" more. I was diagnosed with SIBO but have not had any stool or urine tests, so I don't know exactly who's to blame in my small intestine. Could/should I add some bentonite clay and charcoal to my evening ritual of RS, PHusk, and Green ORAC? Any guidance on more weeding would be appreciated.

Tim Steele said...

Caliprimal - As it's Chinese New years, Grace is probably off partying, so I'll take a stab.

You really should try to get a full report of your gut, it will make going forward so much easier, especially since you have made so much progress.

You could try the clay, etc., but at this point it's shooting in the dark, as they say.

Have you been taking SBO probiotics? The food intolerances could be more related to leaky gut than anything else, SBOs and fermented foods help with that.

Are you exercising, too? Especially walking an hour a day?

Anonymous said...

Thank you for your encouragement. I will go ahead with the MM testing. Not sure why I was hesitating there, except that I've had these reactions forever--like in grade school I remember how other students could hear my stomach noises.

I've completed one bottle of Prescript Asst. and am almost done with AOR -3 bottle. I plan to alternate back to PA next. I've also recently added Zinlori 75 to help with leaky gut. Yes, it all feels like "shooting in the dark"!

My job requires standing and walking for 30 hrs per week, but I'll edeavor to up my mileage one days off.

So, the testing, supplements, walking, with the PHD fully dialed in....maybe I'll try some PS in the mornings as we'll. It makes sense that standing and moving afterward could help it pull bacteria down and out of the small intestines.

Thanks to you and Grace for giving me hope:).


Anonymous said...


Awesome to hear about your progress!


Thomas said...

Dr BG,

sorry if this is redundant but I could not find the answer anywhere:

Does a SBO synbiotic supplement (prescript-assist) has to be taken on an empty stomach, and with or without added RS?

Thanks for all your work! Let's see if I can totally cure my IBS-C. I have IBS for over 10+ years after becoming sick at age 12. A 2013 tropical infection and consequent tinidazole and cipro antibiotics course did not help either.

Jan said...

Dr BG: I'd like to try the AOR Probiotic 3 that you recommend. I have checked the ingredients and find it has lactose in it. I don't do well with lactose and avoid it in my diet. Is it not advised to take Probiotic 3 in my case or is the lactose a part of the probiotic action and not a problem? Thanks!

Anonymous said...

I am wondering if anyone with PCOS has been experimenting with resistant starch and, if so, what changes you have noticed. Or, maybe Dr. BG could speculate a little on what the effect of the increased insulin sensitivity might be. A little background: I'm a 40 year old woman w/ PCOS diagnosis since 14 years old. Without going into too much detail I have been using the PS and also have begun incorporating the RS foods. I had to stop my metformin because I was becoming light headed and dizzy when taking it along with the RS. Now I am noticing some other changes (not entirely sure if they are good or bad). I intend to follow up with my doc as a precaution but I have no faith in the medical establishment's ability to tell me anything useful. I'm certain I have a better chance of finding real and useful info. from this community. Any help would be so appreciated. I suffered a miscarriage in November but am very much hoping to try to conceive again soon but am a little concerned about what I'm experiencing. At my age I don't have a lot of time to play with!

Unknown said...

Anonymous, I have a few non-expert thoughts for you. Basically, with the combination of RS/PS with PCOS, you've started a war zone in your gut, hopefully in the right direction, but in the meantime you may be experiencing hypoglycemic reactions causing dizziness. You're cultivating bacteria which attack fungi. Fungi produce ethanol known to amplify insulin secretion leading to hypoglycemia (same thing happens in binge drinking and hangover). With PCOS, you're likely prone to hypoglycemia and there's debate about use of RS causing hypoglycemia. Also hotly debated is the true mechanism of Metformin where the latest theory is by shifting flora, see here:
So, the drug may be putting your flora shift into overdrive and you're wise to back off, then reintroduce slowly. Another thing you may try is to add sulfur in the form of OptiMSM to balance blood sugar by killing fungi and raising glutathione, lowering inflammation. I like the Source Naturals brand and you might try half teaspoon doses 3-4x/day in water. The sulfur also increases cell wall permeability to let good things in such as insulin and antimicrobial peptides and bad things like acidic waste out.

Unknown said...

Addendum: RS may be contraindicated in PCOS depending on the individual state of microbial and hormonal balance. It would seem powerful to know both your estrogen level and your microbial levels. In PCOS it seems controversial about whether a person has high or low estrogen. Estrogen levels may be dependent on flora balance as microbes such as clostridium (and others) produce enzymes which recirculate estrogen leading to estrogen dominance. So, if you're feeding RS to this set of microbes raising estrogen, that may be a good or a bad thing depending on current levels. The opposite approach of eating meat may be warranted to lower the microbes which produce these estrogen-raising enzymes. Chances are, however, you're low in estrogen and still lower in progresterone giving the appearance of estrogen dominance. Perhaps RS/PS would raise estrogen by increasing microbial enzymes which recycle it. So far, I haven't found any research about RS effect on estrogen levels, but here's a paper about gut hormones increased, also possibly related to increased insulin production leading to hypoglycemia. Little known is how bacteria stimulate insulin secretion from intestinal epithelial cells. Insulin is hardly just a product of the pancreas; it's also made in the brain, mechanism unknown:

Unknown said...


I just wanted to say a quick thank you for your thoughtful and informative reply. There is a lot there and I am going to dig in (there is a lot there I was not aware of, I have a lot of reading to do) and hopefully report back later. I am really hoping I can find a way to make this RS protocol work for me - PCOS often seems like the least of my health issues (Fibro, sibo, allergies, add, & lots of odds and ends that don't fit any diagnosis apart from being leaky gut related). So many people seem to be making health break throughs. I wish I could get more testing done so as to report on things like estrogen. However, I have been unable to work for 4 years and my family is close to broke at this point from paying out of pocket for alternative medicine docs/practitioners who I now think know less than I do (which isn't a lot). Anyway, thank you for taking the time to respond, it is much appreciated.

Anonymous said...

Hi Grace (and Tim)- I have some news to report on my success of using the SBO's plus your SIBO protocol. (For more detailed background I posted in Tims guest post on being a fat burning beast)
I've had hashimoto's autoimmune thyroiditis and tried lots of things. I've been on Prescript assist for 2 months, eating only meat, fruit and veg and egg yolks, cooked and cooled potatoes. Lots of fermented food/ drinks. I added in Mt Uncles banana starch 1.5 months ago and psyllium 1 month ago and a super green food mix 2 weeks ago
My blood results have just come back all normal for hashimotos. I had no antithyroglobulin antibodies and only 17 anti thyroid perioxidase antibodies ( under the "acceptable" 35).

I am celebrating! The doctor was stunned and thought there must have been a mistake or my hashimotos was due to some temporary virus. This is because in their book hashimotos I cant be cured, and antibodies cannot be lowered - only managed until your thyroid is destroyed and you need lifelong meds.
Ive been having a funny pressure/type of reflux, but after adding in the supergreen food mix, it has nearly gone. My TSH has dropped to 2.53 (way better but needs some improvement) and my conversion from T4 to T3 could be improved- but hey what a win!
I'm going to continue until I get my TSH down and improve my conversion of T4 to T3. Also my blood pressure is still very low, so I know I still have some residual thyroid issues. Any suggestions of what I can do more/better?

I'd like to know when I can introduce some milk kefir and possibly some fermented/activated nuts/seeds?Any advice on this? How can I know that the leaky gut is fixed?
You are a legend and I'm thankfulI have found you.

David said...

Hi guys, another RS constipation case here, maybe. Chronic constipation turned into wonderful daily Bristol 3/4 after VSL#3 and Prescript-Assist. Only seemed to get better adding RS and Psyllium. Had foul flatulence for a couple of weeks, but no constipation issues for a couple of months.

Then started having Bristol 1 again, then not as regular, things dried up again. I've tried moving things around, dropping things out to no avail. Latest stool test shows the good guys are still low, and a Campylobacter infection to boot. Also seem to be more hungry than usual.

Any ideas on changes to make and get back to the land of happy pooping?

Unknown said...

David, who do you consider the "good guys?" If it's Firmicutes, i.e., the clostridia who manufacture butryic acid fed by RS, then you may benefit from a vegan diet, or at least a heavily plant-based diet. I believe meat kills Firmicutes while cultivating Bacteroides. Bacteroides overgrowth may apparently cause constipation.

Alternatively, you may have fed Firmicutes overgrowth with RS as cause of constipation. That's the case in the blog post re: "buttloads" of butyrate. Maybe RS isn't for everyone, Tim.

Or, maybe it's the campylobacter you picked-up from chicken or something and you might benefit from a high quality wild oregano oil.

Unknown said...

For what it's worth, ionic colloidal silver may also be helpful for campylobacter:

David said...

Hi Keith, thanks for the reply!

By "good guys" I meant the Obligate Anaerobes section of the GI Effects lab (Bacteriodes, Clostridia, Prevotella, Fusobacteria, Streptomyces, Mycoplasma). The Facultatives are pretty low also, Lactobacillus did make it to the halfway point.

Firmicutes and Bacteriodetes are both in the green. SCFA total, Butyrate, Acetate, Propionate all about in the middle. Valerate farther to the right, getting almost to the yellow.

Could definitely be the Campylobacter, but the constipation returned a couple of months after the stool test which detected it.

Unknown said...

Oh, so your whole tank is low? I'm hardly expert, but another idea would be to add some substrate to help grow your microbes like Great Lakes Beef Gelatin which is also supposed to be good for constipation. Consider yourself a petri dish. It's said you can't kill your way to health, so some prebiotics other than RS may be good, too, like FOS including onions and garlic.

David said...

I've got the GL gelatin, regular and hydrolysate, tried it briefly before but didn't notice anything. I could give it another shot. I know it is supposed to help constipation but I didn't know that it tied in with gut bacteria.

Unknown said...

It's not marketed for that purpose, but gelatin is a known culture medium. Here's an old paper about it:

If your bacteria counts are so low, that would indicate possible opportunistic yeast overgrowth and that may be the underlying problem. I have doubts about stool testing results for yeast. What did they show? Maybe the urine organic acid test is better for that, testing for the metabolite D-arabinitol. By the way, don't trust me, I don't even know my own blood type.

Gillian said...

Gee, I fit the "severe." Always had to be "above average." Sigh. Trying the steps, but haven't seen success yet. Still holding out for it, though.

I do have a question--has anyone heard of live blood analysis? Thoughts on it? A previous doctor who gave up on my case ("I can't do anything more for you... Don't know where to go...") suggested going to another doctor who does live blood analysis. I'm about drained financially and physically. Is that something worth the investment?

Tim Steele said...

Gillian - Sorry to hear. Hate to ask you this, but can you kind of sum up your history, what you've been trying/how long, and what symptoms you're still having?

Gillian said...

Tim, I had posted on a previous one about a lot of my history. My chief question is--has anyone heard of live blood analysis? I have not talked with anyone who has heard of it, and so have no second opinion about it and don't know who to ask.

But a brief history again:
Lost lots of weight at 16, 10 years ago. Blamed it on thyroid, but never able to place it. Lots of I-don't-knows, IBS, testing for autoimmune due to ANA and blood tests (they thought scleroderma, ruled it out, instead have a mild undifferentiated connective tissue disorder), etc. Saw parasitologists, rheumatologists, gastorenterologists, infectious disease and parasitologist doctors... never really could figure anything definitive for why I was losing weight (I'm 5 feet 6 inches, less than 70 lbs, beat Holocaust survivors in emaciation), extremely los T3 but normal T4, fatigue, muscle aches, extreme thirst, extreme constipation (desoite taking more senna/aloe laxatives than anyone should), insomnia (although that is better now), headaches, brain fog, depression, etc.

I've been paleo for a year, always with safe starches. Have sweet potatoes and potato starch for the resistant starch since about the beginning of the year with some Flora 12 from energetix

My current doctor is hesitant about too many starches.

Tim Steele said...

Gillian, thanks, sorry for that. Yes, I remember, i just thought maybe it might spark something in me or maybe others when they see it here.

I don't know what to say. I'd love to send you to a 'dude ranch' on a tropical island and see how you'd react to a stress-free, sunny, healthy place without a care in the world and get you every medical test in the world til we figured out what was going on.

I'm sure you are jaded by the doctors lack of ideas for you, but I think you are going to have to find a good one that can help you.

Diet, probiotics, as much exercise as you can, plenty of fresh air and sunshine will go a long ways, but only get you so far if the underlying issues aren't worked out. Hopefully you have a good social network to rely on and friends you can talk to.

Other than that, I just don't have anything I can offer other than my support and well-wishes. Wish I had a magic wand, I'd use it!

Anonymous said...

I've tried live blood cell analysis before and it can be a very useful aid. It can pick up inflammation (via white blood cell count), food particles in the blood (leaky gut), dehydration, liver stress, parasites- all manner of things. It won't necessarily tell you which parasites.
It really depends on the skill level of the one doing it. Eg I had one a month for 4 months and the pathetic naturopath was so concerned about all the inflammation that he put me on curcurmin tablets - but he didn't put anything else together. There were food particles in my blood - which is from leaky gut , but he never addressed that, and wondered why my inflammation wouldn't go down. The same doctor misread another friends blood analysis and didn't pick up a parasite. She went to another naturopath who picked it up via blood analysis - so experience counts and someone who doesn't treat symptoms, but the cause.
Where it is most useful is to know if you are on the right track. Two people who used it successfully to help heal themselves were Leo Kilssen (the original acne yoda). He saved and saved and kept a diary of what he was eating and taking and did blood analysis everyday to look for effects/improvement. It was how he came up with the most healing foods/supplements that he recommends to others - which are pretty much the same as Dr Grace except the meat.
Another person who used it in a similar way is Don Chisholm who now runs the Nuferm company (specialising in fermented food products similar to Grainfield's and some of Body ecology's products). It goes by a different name in the UK. If you google Nuferm it will take you to an Australian site and on there it has a section on Don's story. He wrote a book about it called "have you got the guts to be really healthy?" And talks quite a lot about how live blood cell analysis helped him, when other tests (via conventional doctors) couldn't pick up anything and said he was a hypochondriac.
Have you had the Metametrix GI FX test yet? It is superior to the other tests that gastroenterologist and conventional doctors do. When i began, i went the same route and they couldnt pick anything up on the colonoscopy etc. i was told it was IBS and that was it. yet stool analysis reveald the SEVERE gut dysbiosis i had. another friend has been through the ringer with doctors who have scoped her, scraped her, biopsied her and can only find ulceration, but not why. the Metametrix test has picked up the underlying issues. Also Have you had your hair mineral analysis for heavy metals?
Cheers Renee

Dr. B G said...

Hi Renee~!

Your a doll and so up to date on all the fats! Congratulations on your health journey!!

I just reviewed your past comment

I'd love to hear from you. Actually I'm shocked how fast some people's recoveries are but I can see you have laid the path for healing already. I think you have a wonderful combination of botanicals that heal immunity and the gut. (well 80% of our immunity is the gut + microbiotia, no?)

Yes you uncovered the secret. It's the synergy of SBO + RS (= synbiotic).

Your tumeric and MSM likely helped seal the tight junctions better as well. Glutathione wears out over time and Keith Bell loves MSM which provides the sulfur to regenerate it. The ORAC green powder augments this regeneration. I'm so glad you noticed lightening speed improvements. Thank you for all of your comments! And I'm soooo grateful for your patience. One of my commitments is finishing two books this year. Would love to include your comments (and labs) in either one because they're both on the gut (or both!). The first is as Science Editor for Richard Nikoley and Tim Steele's RS book.

The arsenic that you discussed (hair analysis) also drains glutathione. It becomes an endless cycle of dispair when we need a healthy gut to detox yet a healthy gut is difficult to achieve with arsenic and mercury on board.

As you the gut slowly heals I believe it is important to introduce soaked whole GF grains, sprouted seeds/grains (YES!), soaked legumes, lentils, whole heirloom tubers (sounds like you do this one), fermented foods to your tolerance and respective insulin sensitivity.

I don't know how long it takes the thyroid to totally normalize. The gut-thyroid-adrenal axis cannot be underestimated. I feel adrenal support gives buffers to the whole process and will help normalize the blood pressure and wonky blood sugar and hormone dysregulation. Nourishing the glands with fermented cod liver oil, omega-3 (algal -- no mercury), borage/flax and fermented foods doesn't hurt either!

Much cheer,

David said...


I had the highest rating 4+ for yeast on a MM stool test in Sep 2012. Got food poisoning the week before, Salmonella showed up on the test as well.

Repeat test showed no yeast in Jan 2013. MM Dysbiosis urine test showed no D-arabinitol in Apr 2013. No yeast on Dec 2013 test.

Also ran a Cyrex Intestinal Permeability last month which looks in range except for one equivocal reading on LPS IgG.

Never tested positive for parasites.

I'm kind of stumped because my symptoms seem to be from yeast, dysbiosis, parasite, and/or leaky gut.

The Natural said...

Hi Renee,
What an awesome story and congratulations on taking control of your own health instead of leaving it to the mercy of doctors. There is no excuse why everyone should not educate themselves about their and make well informed decisions. If one is not doing it, they have their priorities totally should be on everyone's top priorities. Period.

I have just read your story from the other thread Dr. Grace just posted above. I have fried who is battling severe cystic acne. She has been to many dermatologists who put her on multiple courses of antibiotics but they only help while she is on them. The moment she comes off these ABX, acne returns. Recently she has been to an ND who found that she is dairy intolerant but staying off dairy and gluten for nearly 2 months didn't do a whole lot.
She is now on the verge of going on megadose vit-A which makes me really sad for her. I was wondering if she could reach out to you and see if your story might inspire her to change her mind about megadose vit-A and maybe try the SBO + RS route one final time.

Thank you

Anonymous said...

Hi T-Nat or should I call you "The Natural"?

Of course she can reach out to me. What I can offer is 21 years of struggle and what works and what doesn't. Let me restate- that from the age of 19 ( I will be 40 in a month), I developed cystic acne. By 24 it was so bad I had them them in the strangest places and oh God did they hurt. I had one the size of a 50cent piece (Australian- it's quite large!) on my forehead for 5 months. I had them wrapping around my eyelid and eyebrow and on my ear lobe - and ALWAYS on my jaw line.
At 19 I was so concerned because I knew that something was not right. I knew that if I was getting acne, that something was going wrong internally.
I have a very long history of trying things.
19 yrs old facial scrubs. Went to a naturopath who knew something was wrong and gave me drops and a wholefoods diet which I didn't break for a month. On my return to her she saw NO improvement and didn't know why. I gave up on her.
Also developed constipation at this age. Got colonoscopy etc - nothing. Was accused by doctor of not eating well.
20 moisturisers
22-23 no make up and avoiding sugar. Doctor gave me several rounds of different antibiotics and calamine lotion. Started having funny breathing problems after eating. Went through heaps of tests. Eventually a peptic ulcer was detectedfound on a barium meal test.
24 tissue salts and retin A.
25 dermatologist - Roaccutane. Don't do it what ever you do!!!!!! Developed depression.
Roaccutane is touted as high vitaminA therapy. It is an antibiotic and will completely stuff the gut - which is why it is linked to depression. Just google that and you will see. It is terrible stuff and I lost hearing in my right ear. I can't hear certain frequencies - and funny enough in the Mimms guide on the data of Roaccutane one of the side effects is hearing loss (amoung many others) abut the doctors will not tell you any of that. My acne returned within a year. Mt twin sister went blind/got blurred vision from it. (Due to a vitamin A overdose).
By 33 I had a nervous breakdown, something like chronic fatigue. And always (from age 19, terrible digestion). My acne got worse! Went and saw the "best Dr and ND" in melbourne who bled me dry and stuffed me around . I wasted over $6000 on him alone after being 100% compliant with his protocol. I never broke it once, not once- ( cut out all gluten, no salicilates, no dairy, no this, no that etc) with the promise that I would be better in 6 months to 1 year. I gave up after one day getting a giant boil on my jaw even after 18 months of his protocol. It took 4 months to subside by doing....
34 did 20x colonics, 1 week juice /bowel cleanse, 4 month candida cleanse. Got fantastic results (because of diet and extra supplements I was taking). Felt just about healed and then experienced the Black Saturday Bushfires (a near death experience) which set me back to near square 1, due to stress, being cut off without access to supplies, exposure to toxins. Acne came back. Gave up for a bit.

At 35 Went to another DR/ND. who did stool test. I had major gut dysbiosis. he told me to take antibiotics and a couple of probiotics and chlorella. i fled after hearing aniniotics and told him that killing what tiny bit i had left left (less than 15% good flora) was madness. Then went to a different ND and wasted another $10000. This is the stooge who didn't pick up the leaky gut on live blood analysis

Anonymous said...

Part two:
At 37 had a miscarriage.
At 38 had another. The stupid ND said it was because I am too thin. (I knew I was always ravenous and ate like crazy, so I should be putting on weight). I got very mad when I saw food particles in my blood analysis and confronted him with this and this being the cause of my problems - and went elsewhere.
38 diagnosed by fertility ND with Hashimotos (the cause of my miscarriages) via blood tests. Cystic acne always present. Been on usual no gluten, no dairy, no sugar blah blah blah.
39 trying to replicate my earlier success did a 1 month juice fast bowel/liver/kidney/bowel cleanse. Then candida cleanse, without the same results (I realise now what I did differently then which made all the difference).
Upon adding in fermented foods (still No gluten, dairy, allergens etc). Probiotics, SBO's, psyllium, biofilm buster, antimocrobials, green superfood acne has subsided. Sleep has been nearly perfect. Energy better. BMS EVERY Day not every fourth. Still some reflux, digestive issues but way better. Oh and did I mention labs came back all clear for Hashimotos!
Now only two TINY pin head cysts which will be gone in a few days.

After spending some $25000-$30000, here iis what I know. No food, no supplement, no medication, no cream will fix cystic acne. Unless the gut is fully restored it is to no avail.
I ate PERFECTLY according to my naturopaths instructions for 6 years. My cystic could only be managed/reduced, but never gone. I took every supplement they said and it only helped- not cured.
The reason is simple. It doesn't matter what food you put in your mouth or what vitamin IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE GUT FLORA TO DIGEST AND ASSIMILATE IT. If you have parasites etc, then you wont assimilate nutrients, vitamins either. You will be like me- expensive poo and wee. My nutrient levels never got better and my heavy metals were always high. I had No gut flora to protect me or chelate metals.

This is why having fermented foods, and probiotics and resistant starch, green super foods etc is so important. Along with digestive enzymes, HCL ETC. It is a digestive SYSTEM - not a digestive part. They must all be tackled at the same time. If one part is broken, they all are, because it is a chain reaction. These things all work synergistically together on different aspects required for the health of the digestive system.

My digestive system was stuffed. My liver couldn't handle the toxic load from the overgrowth of bad bacteria or the toxic products (heavy metals etc) they allowed to enter my body (even perfect food is toxic if it is not broken down by enzymes or digested in the gut or digested in the wrong order eg SIBO. It will putrify and/or produce more toxic load inflamming the gut which will leak through the into the body.
Once the liver can't handle it, then the body finds other ways of trying to rid the body of toxins - via the skin.
That's why she has acne.
Cheers Renee.

The Natural said...

I am just stunned to read your story and what all you had to endure for more than half of your life. Let me say this, you are truly a brave girl. Respect and admiration!

I am going to send your story to my friend and see if will dissuade her from going the Roaccutane route. At least I won't be guilty of not trying my best to convince her. If your story is not going to do it nothing ever will. All the advice I dish out to her lacks one critical piece- i.e., I have never experienced what she is experiencing and I lack credibility in that aspect. Whatever I tell her looks like trial and error. So, I don't blame her if she doesn't take my advice as seriously as I want her to. But the story of your personal battle and the ultimate conquest will hopefully help her.

Thank you so much again for sharing your story and I'll get in touch with you soon. (I saved your email from your other post).


Anonymous said...

Thanks T-Nat.
It was late when I wrote it and I forget a few things ie Chinese herbalist and acupuncture, or the dermatologist who asked me if I was a lesbian because I didn't want to go on the pill when taking roaccutane. And there's more... But hopefully she gets "the why" nothing else worked.
I'd done psyllium before, dietary changes, etc but it didnt work because it wasnt all done at once, and if the seeding and feeding isn't done after the weeding (which is what antibiotics are supposed to be doing for your friend), then opportunistic bacteria take over and very quickly you are back to scratch. Don't forget the power of biofilm and how it resists antibiotics and antimicrobials (which is the pruning phase of Dr BG s protocol). Each stage must be followed.
All the best.

The Natural said...

Hi Renee,
I sent you an email. Please let me know if you got it.


Anonymous said...

Got it.

Anonymous said...

I'm wondering if anyone else here has had sensitivity to gluten cross-reactors clear up since starting SBOs? I tried potato starch back in December with fantastic initial results, but had to stop because of sensitivity. I seem to have cross-reactivity to some foods that mimic gluten. I know it's not a nightshade thing, as I still eat tomatoes and peppers fine, but potatoes and tapioca both cause the same reactions for me that I get if I accidentally get gluten poisoning. I'm really disappointed about this, as I've been using plantain flour, but not getting the same results as I did with potato starch. Maybe since the RS is lower in the plantain flour I just need to use more, IDK.

I've heard stories where others have had food allergies resolve after using the SBOs, and I'd love to see that happen.I don't care if I'm never able to eat gluten again, but would like a little more variety in trying to get my RS. At this point I've also had a reaction to the glass noodles, which are also a great source.

Any thoughts?

Gillian said...

Dear all,
I think this has been discussed previously, but can someone give me a brief summary of the conclusion? I cannot find organic potato starch, yet I know potatoes are on the "dirty dozen" pesticide list. Are the pesticides in the potato starch a concern? Is it better to not take PS if it is not organic?

Jan said...

Hi @Ann and @Gillian,

I seem to be able to take the BRM PS w/o a nightshade reaction, but I was not happy about drinking the 37 toxic residues found in conventionally grown potatoes, including chemicals like budnip. You might be having a reaction to one or more of those toxins, especially if you have autoimmune issues.

I found online and have been using an all organic potato starch made by Frontier Co-Op products. They make organic spices, etc which are sold in many stores. I did order mine directly from them and have been happy with it. I only take 1-2tbsp a day because I prefer to get most RS from food. Would be worth a try. I'd love to know if it works for you.

Until someone gets BRM PS tested and cleared for toxins, while it may help the gut, as people love to say "it's the dose that makes the poison" so dosing everyday with 20-40grs of toxins, doesn't make sense.

Anonymous said...

Jan - thanks so much! Didn't even consider that. Sure enough - that could be the problem. I will order some from Frontier, and see what happens. I don't have any dx autoimmune, but I know I have leaky gut, so there's that.

I'll try it and report back.

Again, thanks so much for the idea and your kind reply!


Anonymous said...

Jan, the Frontier doesn't say that it's "unmodified" - did you ask? I will email the company and ask before I buy. Richart and Tim both say it has to be "unmodified" to have RS.


Jan said...

I called the company in Iowa about a month ago and was told it was unmodified. I did not get a specific answer on the process used. Please try and get more info and let me know. It acts/tastes the same as BRM and sinks in the water...but I wouldn't want to be drinking non-RS. Btw, it is more expensive, but I'm used to paying more for clean food. I think around $6-8 a lb.


Anonymous said...

Jan, I will get what information I can. I guess you would know if it was RS if you had a lot of gassy reaction to it. I'm wondering about the plaintain flour I'm using because I'm not reacting to it much, but I do have to say that I'm feeling better since using it, so...? I just know I was having GREAT results with the BRM initially, and I was really disappointed to have to give it up. And I'm 99% sure it was that because my IBS cleared right up within days of discontinuing it.

I also don't care what it costs. I'll buy it once to see if I was reacting to the toxins, and if it is something I can tolerate, I'll pay for it. I pay a lot more than that for a lot of other supps. I'm used to paying a lot more for good food as well. We laugh sometimes that we could go back to eating crap and maybe afford a vacation once in a while...


Jan said...

@Ann Ha! I hear ya, but if we ate crap we'd be too sick to go anywhere! :-)

Where do you get plantain flour?

Anonymous said...

Jan - Touche! I'll have to remind him of that next time he says anything about the grocery bill! It's too bad it costs so much to live adequately - and I mean just that - adequately. It's not like we're asking for gourmet food and someone to cook it, I mean we just want to eat GOOD food, not garbage. Pisses me off that we are paying so much for the S.A.D. crap the rest of America eats with our tax dollars, and then having to pay so much again for our organic veg and grass-fed, pastured, and free-range meat. Not to mention the trips to the Naturopath and treatment with vitamins and supps that the insurance doesn't cover.

I digress. Sorry!

I make my own plantain flour. Very green plantains, about .99 per pound here in WA state. I buy about ten at a time, cut both ends off, slit lengthwise just through the skin, and then use a spoon to separate the skin from the flesh starting in the middle. I find I have to get the skin started with the spoon, because whatever is in the skin or flesh gets stuck so far under my thumbnail I can't get it out, and then it turns black for about a week. The first time it got lodged so far under my nail that it was very sore for many days. May have some kind of chemical in the skin or something, but I never let that happen again! I then slice them about 1/8" thick on one of those Benriner Asian mandoline slicers - also handy for making kraut, I might add - I then lay them out, single-layer on my dehydrator shelves and let them go about 12 hours at 115 degrees, or until I can easily snap them in half when cool. I store them in ziploc bags until I need to grind them, and then whir them up in the grain canister of my Vitamix. It's probably not as uniformly ground as what you might buy, but it's working for me. I don't know if you would even need to use a grain canister, probably just any blender, and I'm sure you could even use a food processor. It's not like nuts where you can let it go too long, it just gets finer and finer the longer it goes, as long as the chips are very dry.

Over at Free the Animal, someone said that if you salt or season them before drying they kind of turn out like a chip or cracker, and I guess you could eat them like that, but I don't have that appreciation for their (lack of) flavor.

Let me know if you try it! I'd be interested to hear how you "react" to it, and if it's as effective for you as the Potato Starch.


El said...

Ann, probably this isn't an issue for you as you don't mention using Tim and Dr BG's 'bionic resistant starch' recipe, ie, mixing with psyllium and/or powdered greens. But just in case it helps anyone, I'd been having modestly good results with potato starch, added in some psyllium, but after about 7-10 days started getting the reactions I get to gluten (skin breakouts, canker sores) so have dropped it again. That was the only change so I'm pretty sure psyllium is a no-no for me at least.

Anonymous said...

Hi El - I'm not using the greens, but I am using the psylliumm occasionally with some bentonite. What about something like Acacia fiber? It's supposed to be somewhat gentler than psyllium, and it comes organic? Also, Attogram sells a psyllium blend that is both the husk and the seed which is supposed to be gentler and more effective. But if you are experiencing an allergic reaction, maybe not. Didn't Richard over at Free The Animal say he was putting his PS in Kefir and letting it set a bit to attach and getting his in that way?

The psyllium isn't a problem for me, as I'm using it with the plantain starch and not having any issues. Nope - it's something about the Potato starch, and now I'm going to try it in an organic formula.

By the way - you might not be reacting to the psyllium per se, but it is grown in India, and certain companies are not very careful about pesticides and residues. Have you considered, or are you now using an organic, pesticide free formula? I've heard a lot of folks have issues with psyllium, and then switch to organic and tolerate just fine. Just a thought. That's what I'm going to do with the Potato starch - try organic and see if maybe I was reacting to the pesticide residue. It's worth a try. Most people are saying that when folks react to potatoes they are reacting to the alkaloids, and PS isn't supposed to have much of that remaining after it's processed. It's not a nightshade issue, as I eat tomatoes and peppers fine.

Love to hear if you decide to try something else and have success!


Jan said...

Ann, thanks for the plantain info. I will try it, to have a non-nightshade alternative. Question-do you use a probiotic with your RS? I'm wondering about the Probitoic 3 that Dr BG likes, but it has lactose in it. Would love to know if that causes problems for those of us who don't do dairy. Looking for a good SBO/probiotic that will colonize and not just pass through.

As for fiber with an IBS condition, fibers like psyllium or inulin, any of that, causes problems. I do have the Heather's organic acacia to try but haven't yet.

El said...

Hi Ann. I hadn't really considered the contaminants issue, but as it happens it was an organic psyllium so that's probably not the problem. Acacia gum is a good suggestion, thanks. I've also been thinking of trying slippery elm. Interestingly, I have in the past had similar gluten type reactions from commercial gluten free breads (not something I ever eat as a rule) which I had blamed on maize - but this has made me suspect it's actually the psyllium, so the experiment has been worthwhile I guess!
Will be interesting to see if organic PS makes a difference for you.

Anonymous said...

You know El, I also have reactions to other starches. Tapioca, which is another great source of RS, gives me the same reactions as gluten. And I think that a lot of GF products are made with tapioca flour and potato starch, so I have that same problem! At this point I feel very fortunate to still be eating rice and rice noodles, as rice is also on that list...

There are lists of foods that are common reactants because some of their proteins look like gluten to the body. I was stunned when I first discovered this. It just goes to show that Dr. G is right - we need to heal the gut first.

Unknown said...

I have the same question for Dr. BG that Eve has: is it possible to schedule a consult? Now that I am in possession of my GI FX 2200 results in addition to both ONE and ION labs from Genova, I'm up to my eyeballs in data, but short on expertise. I emailed Grace sometime last week asking the same question, but haven't received a reply.

I'm also happy to post data here if anyone cares to look at it.


The Natural said...

Did you order your Genova tests through your doctor? What did the doctor say about the results? Are you trying to fix a specific problem?

I have ordered mine through Dr. BG and I am awaiting the results- should be here in a week or so. I have just started taking Rx Assist and AOR 3 today as I have kinda got my pre-Probiotics samples sent out.
Plan to test again after a few months to see how I have progressed.

I think Dr. BG must be still quite busy as I have not seen her posts here in a while.


The Natural said...

To clarify- I am getting my GI FX 2200 and ONE tests by Genova Labs

Unknown said...

Hi T-Nat,

Yes, I did order my Genova tests through my doctor and I have an appointment with her scheduled for 2/28. And I am trying to fix a specific problem. Started noticing pain in my lower left abdomen back in August last year. CAT scan ruled out anything physically wrong, so I've been following Dr. BG's protocol, but have yet to fully cure myself.

In addition to consuming tons of unmodified potato starch and fermented foods, I've thrown just about every soil-based probiotic down my gullet. Started with Primal Defense, then Prescript Assist, then Body Biotic. Just started AOR 3 last week and I have my fingers crossed because I seem to be getting better.

I'm hoping Dr. BG will have the time to look at my labs before I see my doctor.

Jan said...

@Unknown How are you taking the AOR PB3? What have you noticed in improvements? Does lactose cause you any problems?

I'm trying to decide if I should try the PB3. I'm not seeing any improvement with Rx Assist. Doing PS and fermented foods.


Unknown said...

Hi Jan,

I'm taking three AOR PB3 first thing in the morning on an empty stomach with 2 tablespoons of unmodified potato starch.

I haven't noticed any issues with the lactose, but I don't think I'm particularly lactose intolerant.

FWIW, I do think that psyllium powder worsens my symptoms, so I've stopped taking it.

Anonymous said...


• The use of psyllium seed husk with Body Biotics™ is discouraged because of its indiscriminate stripping away of both friendly and unfriendly bacteria. Use of psyllium seed husk could minimize the positive health benefits of Body Biotics™.

Unknown said...

David, your high valerate may be telling and could indicate a helminth infection causing your problem. Worms make valeric acid where valerate is a salt of valeric acid. See here:

it would also explain your low levels of commensal flora as that's what the tiny mouths of worms were designed to eat. It also explains your constipation.

Unknown said...

David, here's another paper detailing high valerate and intestinal helminth infection:

They don't call this Animal Pharm for nothin'.

Anonymous said...

Jan & all - I just wanted to post here the reply I received from Frontier Natural Products Co-Op, where Jan bought her organic potato starch. They claim it is NOT unmodified, so is useless as a form of RS.

Their reply to my query is as follows:


Thank you so much for your inquiry. This product is modified, as this product is heated when cooked and when dried. We don't regulate the temperatures that our suppliers use, and trust that they are using the best methods to produce a high quality product. We test every lot of every product to make sure it meets our high quality standards before we will sell it.

Our QA department has researched and developed a set of specifications for each product that we offer and we ensure all products meet those specs with a comprehensive quality program.

Please let us know if we can be of any further assistance.


Customer Care
Frontier Natural Products Co-op"

I was disappointed to hear this as I was also hoping for a clean source of potato starch. I guess I'll be sticking with the plantains for the time being.


Ja said...

@Ann thanks for the official word. I decided today to take my blood sugar about 3hours after taking that PS and my BS was HIGH! I was so bummed. I knew it had to be plain starch. Oh well, I guess I'll look of the plantain flour.
Thanks again!

Dr. B G said...

Thank you Dr. Keith!

I'm not the biggest fan of psyllium. Please consider the use of green banana flour or green plantain flour.

The updates are here

G banana flour has the range of fibers/RS that may heal the gut faster than psyllium+RS which I love but lack a lot.

I don't know why Body Biotic says that. I wonder if they have anecdotes or a study to point to the 'roughness' on the gut? I searched and didn't find anything. Psyllium is predominantly soluble fiber.

G banana and plantain flour contain pectins which help make pathogens like Salmonella to stop adhering to the small intestinal cells (VERY IMPORTANT) and have botanicals and antioxidants that soothe microulcerations to fix colitis and intestinal permeability. A buddy Pedro Bastos has informed me that they have been using for over 10 years in South America with great sucess.

Yes fibers (any) can cause issues in IBS -- not weird because IBS is 100% small intestinal micro ulcerations and dysbiosis. The wrong organisms are thriving in most thin, frail and vulnerable part of our gut, the small intestines. As you can see from the 2 cases posted, getting to the root problem will yield results. Unfortunately we live in a world of parasites and aggressive microbes that grow nuts when we are deficient our mutualistic micrboial army and SWAT team.

When the parasites and aggressive minnions get out of control, we have to weed them out. Parasites don't care if we are VLC or avoiding FODMAPS. They will still feast whether it's the lining of your gut or the leftover SWAT team. lol.

Will send a note!

Thank you for the cross-reactivity information. Yes. So sad, huh? It's a problem when our immune system IS THE GUT and the gut is wrecked. Yes strict avoidance to calm the gut down helps for the first 1-2 months. Taking immune boosters like bio-curcumin, gently poached egg yolks, bone broths, and getting fresh air/sunlight all can help as well.

Anonymous said...

Thanks Dr. Grace. I'm wondering if you had to start your SBOs slowly, or did you just dive right in? Did you have any negative side effects from die-off? I get die-off from eating my own raw kraut, so I'm a little nervous to start my Prescript Assist and Primal Defense...

Erik said...

Dear dr. Grace,

Thank you so much for all the great information you share on this blog. I’ve been taking the PS + psyllium husk from your SIBO protocol and so far I feel like it’s helping me. I was hoping you could give me advice on my particular situation.

My problems:
- Problems digesting fructose, lactose and FODMAPS.
- Eczema, which gets much, much worse after eating fructose.
- Fructose also causes fatigue, mild headache and strange psychological symptoms (like anger, or addictive behavior). I really think it’s getting fermented into something bad.
- Often when I eat carbohydrates it feels like they get ‘stuck’ in my small intestine, causing bloating and discomfort, and extreme fatigue (all I’m able to do is lie down and wait for it to pass).
- Chronic nose congestion (it’s always present, but gets worse after meals containing carbs. It really ruins my sleep)
- Fermented foods and probiotics containing lactobacilli, like Bio-Kult, give me digestive problems (bloating, indigestion, heartburn, belching). They basically make all my problems worse. I take SBO’s (Prescript-Assist) now, and I tolerate those fine.

After having tried out many things I was quite sure that SIBO was the cause. I then had the 2200 GI Effects Comprehensive Profile done, and the results were as expected:
- No yeast, no parasites, no opportunistic bacteria.
- High Clostridia spp. (11.4, normal ranges: 1.5 – 6.2)
- High lactobacillus spp. (8.4, normal ranges: 1.8 – 7.8)
All the other markers are all good within the normal range, so no problems there. (Lactoferrin, mucus, WBC’s, PH, RBC’s, Pancreatic elastase 1, tryglicerides, putrefactive SCFA, LCFA’s and fecal fat and cholesterol)

I suppose the results indicate an overgrowth of “good” colonic bacteria into the small intestine. This would explain my problems. I’m thinking about doing the Organix Comprehensive Profile as well just to be really sure, but to me it seems pretty clear that this is the cause. Would you agree?

I have tried avoiding fructose and FODMAPS for more than a year, which helps with the symptoms, but as soon as I eat a tiny bit of it all my symptoms immediately return with a vengeance. I now basically follow PHD without fructose and FODMAPS.

Do you think I should take a course of antibiotics, like Xifaxan? Or do you have other suggestions (like clay or something)? I would be very grateful if you could help me out.


Gillian said...

Dr. Grace or any of you other knowledgeables,
Do you know if resistant starch is increased by boiling green bananas? (When I lived in Honduras, they sometimes boiled green bananas--especially when boiled in a soup they are delicious!). I know that boiling potatoes and then eating them cold increases the RS--is it the same with green bananas, boiling them and then eating them cold? But I have also heard cooking promotes the formation of sugars, which might negate the starch.... Is it better to boil the green bananas or not?

Do green plantains have any advantage over green bananas?

Do regular old organic potatoes (not the starch) contain more RS than sweet potatoes?

Jan said...

@Gillian I think cooked, cooled potatoes contain RS, sweet potatoes do not. I would think heating and boiling green bananas would change the RS to regular starch. It would be "modified".

@DrBG I'm still wondering if the lactose in AOR Probiotic 3 causes problems if LI? Do you use with folks who are LI? I would like to try it.

I am looking for a good online source for either green plantain flour or green banana flour. If the plantain flour doesn't mention green or unmodified, I'm assuming it's been heated. Also, tapioca starch doesn't say unmodified so it's probably heated. All of which makes them not RS, right?

Sidney Phillips said...

Great post. I don't have insurance; what is the cost of the GI Fx test?

Tim Steele said...

Gill/Jan/Ann - Sorry for brevity here, but working on a stupid tablet laptop w/fat fingers.

Boiled bananas = no RS,

Green bananas/plantains, are same thing RS-wise. Choke them down or put in smoothie, you get used to them. I do dried plantains or green bananas almostevery day. You get used to them. For g banana flour, Wedo Gluten Free or Mt Uncles or Barry Farms. But, really, just make your own or eat g bananas. It's all the same thing.

Probiotic-3/LI - no problem for my wife who is very LI. She has been taking them and potato starch (1TBS or less/day) for several months now. We are on vacation, day 2 she can't poop and gets yeast infection, she didn't bring pro-3 and we had no potato starch. We hit Long's Drugs, buy some cheap-o probiotics with bifido, lacto, and a strepto blend, a bage of potato starch and after 2 days is back to normal. Needless to say we are believers.

I think a lot of it boils down to gut motility, gutbug growth, pH, stool bulking, and repression of pathogens that do just the opposite of what you want.

Also, whoever said the organic potato starch was cooked/modified, I don't believe it.

If it was cooked, it wouldn't be starch, it would be flour. I have looked at probably 10 differentbrands of potato starch sold in food aisles, and it all looks like good stuff to me. If you mix it with water, you can tell right away if it is plain starch. It will settle out and be hard to stir. If it was cooked first, it would get doughy. The processing method for starch extraction wouldn't work if it was cooked.

The modification I worry about is doing chemical stuff to it which is what the do with laundry starch or industrial drilling starch--if it's soled in the food aisle, it's unmodified.

If you are concerned about any contamination, which is a valid concern for many, and want to use potato starch, or experiment with it for a while, it's easy enough to make your own from fresh potatoes. Just peel, clean, cube, and some water, and chop in a blender. Then squeeze through cheesecloth and allow the starch to settle. Pour the water off the top, spread the starch on a plastic paper plate and allow to dry overnight. It won't be as pretty as the storebought stuff, but it will work. Just an idea. I find I can get 1/4 cup of starch (4TBS) from a pound of potatoes.

This is only if you really, really, want to try potato starch but are scared of storebought brands. Peel well, remove all green spots. Buy organic/pesticide free, whatever. Or grow your own.

OK gotta run!

Anonymous said...

Tim, yes it settles out, but Jan said she tested her BS after consuming it and it was pretty high. I heard that a and considering the email from the Frontier people caused me to feel that maybe it was just flour. I will try it and check my BS to see if maybe the BS thing was just Jan's experience. I have other issues with potatoes, and will have to see if I tolerate it for that reason, but I'm willing to try it.


David said...

Hi Keith,

Thanks so much for the info. I'll take a look at the papers. My Valerate was still in the "normal" range, but it was quite a bit higher than Acetate, Butyrate, and Proprionate.


Jan said...

Ok, I threw out my 2 bags of Fontier Co-op organic PS. I figured it was not the real deal if they heated it, as they told Ann. I did have a higher than normal BS reading several hours after taking a 1tbsp of it. It did not really settle out in the bottom of the cup like the BRM does. It kept floating around. I checked it compared it before I pitched it.

Thanks @Tim for the PR3 info. I'm gonna order it.

G said...


Gillian~ I don't know if raw g plantain has advanatages over g bananas. It appears to me in the studies they are very similar and have clinical outcomes that overlap
--prevent adherence of pathogens (PS has not been shown, just theoretical)
--high ORAC antioxidant status (PS does not; it's just fiber)
--each has decades of anecdotal and folklore use (PS? probably exists too but I don't know)
--less worry about allergens, pesticides or metal contamination from processing

Sidney ~ It's over $400 for the GI fx if no insurance.

Erik ~ I concur with your assessments. You're a smarty pants! It's weird but the GI fx can miss candida and parasites, both. Very rare but it happens. Also if you're completely VLC and not triggering things by avoiding food allergens, the results appear far better, though the symptoms are apparent with food triggers.

Jan ~The lactose is very small in Probiotic-3. I'd consider just trying or adding a lactase enzyme with it or consider the other SBOs.


Gillian said...

Oh! Thank you so much for the feedback on the green bananas and proper preparation, and the info about the adherence of pathogens, etc. I so appreciate it!

Unknown said...

David, another thing to consider (and much more palatable than a helminth infection) is how valerate is associated with biotin, a product of microbes. This is complex stuff I'm still learning about, but basically biotin is a product of gut flora and it helps flora to grow. So what does biotin have to do with high valerate? The structure of biotin is somehow part of the valeric acid you're pooping out/not absorbing. This lack of biotin or biotinidase deficiency lowers magnesium causing constipation. Also, low biotin means microbes use CO2 to grow and this also leads to constipation, hence CO2 suppositories. A few things you might try: niacinamide to raise CO2, magnesium chloride (preferably transdermal), 10 grams OptiMSM daily in three divided doses as sulfur deficiency may be a large part of your problem (sulfur largely figures into biotin's structure). MSM is also known to take care of constipation (OptiMSM is a pure form made by distillation). You might even consider a biotin supplement, but some people actually become constipated using biotin. I'm still learning about all this stuff myself, so please do your own research. I just found the connection to your high valerate and biotin a strong construct for healing.

Jan said...

@Keith Bell Been reading your comments to David and I don't know about worms, haven't had it tested. But I do have constipation/SIBO , which was much improved initially on PS/Prescript Assist/green powder-Dr. BG's magic drink and I was using 1/2tsp acacia (Heather's) instead of psyllium husks. Did great for a few days, regular morning clean out, quick and easy. I started taking 1000mcg Biotin and was just about to add MSM when the constipation returned. Any thoughts? I eat low fodmap, Paleo with fermented foods daily, drink young coconut kefir and other forms of RS. Taking 1tbsp PS a day. Thx!

Erik said...

Dr. Grace,
Thank you for your reply! I didn't realize that the GI Effects might have given a false negative on parasites and yeast...Do you think parasites could be the cause for my problems? In that case I might have to do another stool test.

I've decided to do the Organix Comprehensive Profile test. If that doesn't show any yeast I think I can be quite sure that yeast is not my problem.

Thanks again for your help!

Ryan said...

Hey BG, Tim and fellow community healers,

I was "prescribed" your 7 steps to curing SIBO by my acupuncturist and have been reading all the mind blowing information you have posted. You two are doing amazing research, so much so that I've read every post on SIBO 5 plus times (in addition to the comment board being chalked with great information).

I have been dealing with digestive/colon issues along with re-occuring fungal/candida issues on my skin for around 10 years. Both conditions weren't super extreme (although I now realize I was living in a somewhat zombie state, even though I was fully active) and I was able to just push through life after numerous doctors had no answers. Last year after a round of antibiotic for sinus issues everything went downhill fast.

I believe it's the common thread of past medications for yeast, acne, IBS alongside the SAD diet eventually breaking everything down and I've now entered the labyrinth of bio-hacking my body.

Currently I'm having a tremendous time assimilating any food (bloating, pain, distention, even after following a strict Paleo protocol, Fodmaps, heavy probiotics intake, elimination diet, etc.....accompanied with all the signs of adrenal/thyroid issues, weight loss/tough to put on muscle, etc. (one year ago I was 6ft 175lb lean muscle, now 155lb and less lean/muscular).

I went head first into the protocol last week without any blood work (now thinking that blood work may be a good call) aimed at treating bacteria overgrowth, fungal/yeast, parasites and leaky gut. Any feedback on the following questions would be great. My apologies if this is redundant, elementary or too long for all the gut professors on this blog....

What I'm taking:
Prescript Assist (twice daily), Potato Starch (twice daily 4tbsp total), Amazing Grass Orac, Nattokinase Supp, SCRAM anti-parasite from Healthforce Nutritionals, Tumeric Supreme, Diatomaceous Earth, sauerkraut/kimchi/goat kefir, sweet potatoes/yams grilled, meat/chicken/fish, squash/carrots. Also taking Chinese Herbs from practitioner in congruence with overall plan.

*So far (only 10 days in) I'm having intense gas, 24/7 distention, bloating, some pain, etc. However, this is close to how it was prior and it's now just been kicked up a notch due to the full force Potato Starch, Prescript Assist, Herbs (my guess is primarily from going all in on the PS).

-Do you find that there could be a period of increased issues before subsiding once things begin to balance? Assuming this is the typical scenario everyone faces of whether to keep charging forward when starting any protocol or to tweak and pull back. I'm a fan of giving something the full go, but you get in the conundrum of constantly second guessing.

-While being Paleo for the past year I was taking copious amounts of probiotics with Lactobacillus (Bio-K, Natren Trinity, Inner Echo), should I be concerned with taking too much? As mentioned, I just started Prescript Assist....but still taking coconut/goat milk kefir, fermented foods. Hoping the soil based probiotic could be a breakthrough.

-What is the best way to fit RS into the diet without experiencing crashes? After being Paleo for so long without any RS I get tired if incorporate it into a meal. Would be great if anyone has a daily schedule of meals that is best followed when starting to incorporate RS and this protocol. I'm currently only working with cooked yams/sweet potatoes and will at some point try to bring on fermented legume/grains. The day typically looks like some form of meat/chicken/fish with yam and carrots or squash. That's pretty much it.

-BG, you mentioned not being able to make much headway in your recovery until you had implants and mercury removed. I've had titanium dental implants in my front two teeth for 16 years. I assume you would recommend having those replaced immediately?......did you replace with a bridge?

-BG, are you available to work with and order bloods?

Sorry for the long message! Ryan

Unknown said...

Jan, please know I'm an amateur. Maybe the biotin locked you up as many report, though I'm not certain of the mechanism, even at the low dose you took. I'd test the OptiMSM, add more raw vegetable fiber (broccoli, carrots, leafy greens) and consume less meat. I'd also consider fungal overgrowth along with SIBO which should be called SIBFO.

Biotin is a huge subject I've been learning about, wondering which sets of bacteria make it, which sets consume it and how it affects the whole. For all I know, David's high valerate may indicate excess biotin, not deficiency. I tend to doubt worms are involved, though I do know of another with high valerate who was diagnosed with worms, but they may have been separate issues.

Jan said...

Thanks @Keith Bell. I didn't take any biotin today, things seem back to normal. Anecdotal, I know but not much else has changed. I can't eat higher fodmap veggies or raw veggies. Too fiberous for my digestion. I have been using the acacia, very gradually and it seems to be well tolerated. I drink Latero flora and take SB for yeast and don't eat fruit or sugars. My safe starches and cooked veggies are my carbs. Mostly following PHD recs.
What else would you suggest for yeast? I have some MSM from Dr. Mercola...not a good source? When is it best to take it and how much?

David said...

Hi Kieth,

I have looked at biotin quite a bit. In 6 years of dealing with ME/CFS and thousands spent on supplements, biotin is one of the few that had any effect. In 2011 I started a low dose of biotin (300 mcg) and had a joyous week of remission, no excessive sleeping and no fatigue. But after that week the fatigue returned, and I never had any success with biotin again. Even at very high doses.

I had similar remission, but for much longer period from Super Thisilyn, methylfolate, and vitamin C combo. Not sure which did the trick.

I have several SNP mutations that could make methylation (MTHFR, COMT, CBS) and detox (CYP1B1, CYP2D6, GSTP1) tough for me.

I hope to get this gut stuff straightened out, and hopefully it will help the ME/CFS. At least it won't be holding things up. I'm doing a test with the Parisitology Center to see if Genova missed any parasite or yeast on the last stool test. Other than that I'm kind of at an end to figure out the dysbiosis. I have a Genova SIBO kit here also, but not sure it's worth doing because I don't have overt signs of upper gut issues.

Thanks for all the suggestions. I have tried niacinamide recently, magnesium chloride, and MSM (not OptiMSM) in the past. I'll consider them again.


David said...

Oh, and I see on my calendar that I took biotin 500 mcg, for the first time in a long time, on the day I have marked the constipation returning. Coincidence?

Unknown said...

Jan, f you have the Mercola MSM capsules, you'd have to take 4 caps 5x/day to reach therapeutic dose. That's too many caps. I'm not sure all the other things in that complex are beneficial at that schedule. I like the Source Naturals powder:
Half teaspoon doses 3-4x/day mixed in water. Some people use full teaspoon doses to balance blood sugar. It raises pH to fight fungi. Niacinamide is also antifungal; try 500 mg. twice daily (once before bed, it makes you sleepy, I believe via raising CO2). Boron is another good antifungal. Hemp oil might be good. Kyolic garlic is another, though fresh raw garlic is probably best (9 cloves is equivalent to prescription antibiotic). I wouldn't take magnesium chloride internally as it feeds yeast; that's why I'd recommend it transdermally, even though it ends up in the gut anyway, it may not be as concentrated and cause problems.

David, ever consider shaking things up with ionic colloidal silver?

You are both amazing self-advocates. Thanks for the continued education about biotin; I doubt its association with constipation is coincidental.

Unknown said...

Bee propolis is another good antimicrobial, antifungal in particular.

Jan said...

@Keith Bell I ordered the MSM powder and niacinamide, hoping for some sleep support. :-) Thanks!

I take Mg Glycinate caps (200mg) at bedtime. Not good for yeast/fungi? I have the spray oil here already, so I could switch.

I thought yeast/fungi need a lower ph for control, more acid, like fermented foods, HCL? Just picking your brain!

RalnaC said...

Hello all, been following this blog and resistant starch info on Free The Animal for a few weeks now. Am up to several tablespoons of potato/tapioca starch plus probiotics. Just started Probiotic-3.

My main issue is histamine intolerance after eating raw Swiss Chard in November, and getting an overload of oxalic acid/phenols/nitrate not sure whatall food chemicals got me. A slew of symptoms followed, including itchiness, flushing, multiple food intolerances, tachycardia, blood pressure and blood sugar dysregulation, bladder pain, rectal bleeding, fibro-type inflamed points behind knee, upper back, hips, yeast, plus crushing fatigue. I had extremely acidic urine, initially with lots of little crystals. Thankfully I am on track with diet and rebuilding my gut flora, and feeling lots better.

I have to give much credit to mineral baths for getting me through the initial misery. Dead Sea Salt saved me and my body pain and inflammation melted away, I am left with occasional top-of-foot pain and and menstrual migraines, that's it. There are published studies treating fibromyalgia, arthritis and many skin conditions including vitiligo. Bromine in the Dead Sea is also used to build some enzyme in the body that fights parasites and certain bacteria, including tuberculosis.

The main components are mag chloride and potassium chloride plus many trace elements and some sulfate. I am getting ready to order a 50 lb bag since I go through so much of it. I also have a bulk bag of SEA-90 sea salt from the Sea of Cortez coming for soaking, gardening, chicken supplement and eating. SEA-90 also has some research behind it, particularly impressive animal health gains. It's cheaper than the stuff from the health food store, sold to farmers.

If you are mineral deficient, your body will be missing enzymes and I absolutely believe most of us could benefit from more minerals including trace minerals.

Something as simple as a spoonful of molasses before bed changed my urine pH for most of the next day. So did soaking in a strong salt solution. Like I said, my urine during this episode is almost always very acidic, and I don't want kidney disease!

Microbes loooove molasses. I have a microbe brew I sprayed on my garden last summer and everything grew like gangbusters. Biggest peppers I have ever seen. So, my recommendation is feed macro and trace minerals to your internal compost!

And soak in it every chance you get.

RalnaC said...

Oh, the reason I happened to have Dead Sea Salt on hand is I got it for my husband's horrible reaction to Cipro last spring.

He got terrible tendonitis within 12 hours of the 1st tablet, it was very scary. The pain went on for months.

Transdermal magnesium is your friend. Cipro and other fluoroquinolones are evil.

Unknown said...

Jan, my understanding is pH is compartmentalized throughout the body with plenty of inverse relationships. So, sulfur would raise acidity in the gut (good for pathogen reduction) which raises alkalinity in blood which raises intracellular and brain acidity to healthy levels. Also, sulfur is the world's oldest antifungal used on crops, which is a fun way to view the gut . . . if you like to pharm. What begins in the gut doesn't stay there, so raising blood alkalinity controls systemic yeast.

Anonymous said...

Keith Bell - I bought MSM for just this reason, but after doing a little research I've come to the conclusion that a lot of folks don't tolerate it well. A lot of what I was seeing is that it causes some people symptoms like anxiety and depression. These are folks who weren't prone to anxiety prior, and for whom these symptoms abated as soon as they stopped using the MSM. Have you heard this? Do you know why this would be happening? I'd love to try it, but I'm prone to anxiety as it is - I certainly don't want to have that kind of reaction.


Unknown said...

Ann, I've not heard that, but have read about people having herxheimer reactions to it. Too much can cause headache, I believe due to herx die-off reaction (toxin/aldehyde release). And I wouldn't be surprised if some experience depression because of the flora shift, at least in the short term. Like anything, best to begin slowly. The same is true of probiotics.

Some people fear MSM because they've been diagnosed with sulfation/methylation issues such as genetic mutation, a field I don't really understand well, but I believe microbes turn our genes on and off like light switches and that we can help them flip the right switches.

Erik said...

Hello all,

Please excuse me for my many questions. It's wonderful to have a place with such knowledgeable people about the gut.

I found some articles and a lot of anecdotes about S. Boulardii having a positive effect on Candida and SIBO. Do you guys recommend it? Or is it better to avoid it? I don't really like the idea of ingesting fungi, but if it truly is 'probiotic' it might work.

Tim Steele said...

Erik - I'm pretty sure Grace likes it if not seriously immune compromised.

I love it, in theory. I've read a lot about it. Look awesome. I have no personal experience with it. I plan on getting some next time I order on amazon. I'm surprised more people don't talk about it. Seems to have a long, successful history.

Erik said...

Hi Tim Steele,
Great! Thanks for your reply. I've decided to order it as well to give it a shot.

Take a look at the wikipedia page, it explains a lot of its beneficial effects:

I too was wondering why it isn't more famous. I rarely see it discussed, but all the info and anecdotes I've found seem very positive.

I know Chris Kresser recommended it against SIBO in one of his podcasts. IIRC he said he had seen some good results with it on his patients.

Anonymous said...

I had been following along here for a while. Thanks for all the info everyone.

I did find this article the other day re: Invasive Saccharomyces Infection

"S. boulardii accounted for 51.3% of fungemias and was exclusively isolated from blood. Compared with patients infected with S. cerevisiae, patients infected with S. boulardii were more frequently immunocompetent and had a better prognosis. Saccharomyces invasive infection was clinically indistinguishable from an invasive candidiasis."

I think I will put S boulardii on hold for a while.


Erik said...

Ouch! Thanks, Louise. That scares me off of it.

Anonymous said...

Hi Dr BG i am new to your blog and trying to read as much as i can. My digestive symtpoms are all over the board and i am not really sure where to start.

I was following Nourishing Traditions for many years, then went GAPS because i wanted deeper healing for myself and possible autistic/aspergers children. After a year and with a lot of improvements over all, we transitioned into Primal/Paleo ish diet still follow Nourishing Traditions, ferments, etc... but no to low grain.

I feel like i can no longer tolerate many cooked or raw vegetables though so the menu was getting stricter and with all the RS information I added back in potatoes and non gluten grains, beans, rice, etc. over the past year all prepared NT way and i have put on about 30#'s.

I have very painful gas that feels like it is just ripping through my tract, same when i eat salads or stir fry which is why i added back in the starch/grains/legumes thinking i must have starved soemthing out. Reflux like issues and constipation. I have to supplement with mag daily to get things moving along.

But honestly i do not see how that is possible as I ferment all kinds of foods and had been prior, during, after GAPS. Was already using Primal Defense for years before GAPS and used them and BioKult during GAPS, plus ferments. Still use Primal off and on. I just do not get why i still have issues unless my digestion is just permanently destroyed or i am eating foods i am very allergic too. We raise a lot of our own food - garden, hens, meat chickens, etc. Source locally from farms for other items, and fill in the gaps with store organic items. We still pretty much avoid processed foods probably 90% of the diet is Real Food. I have been pretty strict in following everything along the lines of good fats, real food, etc.


Anonymous said...


I can honestly say i grew up like a CAFO animal being fed ABX daily for months straight by Drs. pretty much anytime my parents took me in for a cough, hives, acne, allergies, etc.

I recall with the cystic acne i was on rounds for months at a time going through all the cyclines from one to the next to cure it but it was only getting worse. The GAPS diet BTW finally cured it - comes back with wheat consumption. I was also arthritic but that went away on GAPS - again wheat flares it up.

Anyhow, I was on rounds of accutane in my young adult years for the cystic acne, before i turned to diet changes. I feel like that was when things got worse for me. The cystic acne was so bad and painful. And i was literally going crazy, mentally. Since i was on accutane they were double dosing me on Depo proverra behind my back as i had refused a second form of birth control and said i would use barrier methods. I found out almost a yr later (after becoming severely depressed, suicidal, paranoid, OCD, anti social, developed a cosntant intensly itchy blistery rash/eczem on hands and feet that, etc.) about the doubling me up because i went to a new doctor who was shocked at the depo dose i was on every 2 months.

We decided i had to go off it all and it took years for me to iron out hormone/emotional wise. The real food diet has really helped me in that regard (been following it for 8.5 years about 4 years after the depo/accutane treatment). It took many years to level off that roller coast hell i was on with those meds and even after i was still like a manic depressive person just not daily. But would have realy lows every few months that were debilitating. Until the real food change which i am forever greatful for. My mental state cleared on real food. But it took GAPS to show me wheat was causing the blistery rash i had for 5 yrs. The arthritis and cystic acne/boil skin problems, were gone - both i had had since i was 12 yrs old.

Currently I have all kinds of hypo smptoms on top of all the digestive stuff (reflux, lack of emptying of stomach or going into the stomach??) and constipation (life long issue). So i feel like i have come a long ways because of that mental hell hole i was in for 4 years and the intense chronic pain and itch from blisters, eczema, arthritis, boil/acne, etc. most of my life. But my digestion feels like it has gotten worse over the years when it should be better.

I just do not know what to do anymore and feel like i am running out of foods to eat besides meat. I have constant post nasal drip so i try to avoid milk even raw from our goats or from a friends cow. I try to only use fermented dairy but i suspect allergies to it as well. I can take digestive enzymes with meals and feel it in my stomach but yet food is backed into my throat. I feel like something mechanical is broke in there.

I had a hiatal hernia for several years that a chiro fixed. I am not sure if it is slipping in and out during these times of reflux or what. I take a broad spectrum vegetable and animal enzymes with every meal. It seems no matter what i eat it is coming back up from my stomach (no burn with it or pain), bend down or burp shotrly after a meal and food in mouth, yuck. I keep thinking it has something to do with the hernia, maybe the flap over the stomach is not working right? I don't know. The few doctors i have seen do nothing but want to prescribe reflux med. I just do not know what to do anymore.

Any tips would be greatly appreciated!


vonsachsen said...

Hi all, I read and read on this blog and learn tons, from the blog itself and from the comments as well!
Forgive my ignorance but I have a small wuestion here: would the SIBO protocol help someone with ulcerative colitis too? It must affect the large intestine positively if the small intestine works better, but do you have other suggestions as well?
Thank you,
PS another thing I was wondering about. I'm not a native english speaker, so I don't want to misunderstand: when you say eat green bananas, is it the "regular" banana before it gets ripe or is it the cooking banana? (or the cooking banana is the plantain?) thanks again!

Tim Steele said...

July - It really sucks when you are doing everything right and still have problems. Sorry i don't have any advice for you, but good luck.

Eva - From what I've read (I'm no Dr) UC should be helped by a diet as outlined in the SIBO cure, although I've also seen strict warnings to avoid the starchy foods. You could try by doing it slowly.

Green Bananas usually refer to the kind that get sweet and turn yellow, just eaten while still very green, even before they can be peeled easily. At this point they are exactly like a plantain/cooking banana in terms of starch. Not very good for straight eating, but they blend well in a smoothie or can be sliced and air-dried.

Anonymous said...

Eva - visit a site called "Listen to Your Gut"

Jini Patel Thompson has used holistic medicine to put her Crohns into remission, and has kept it there for over twenty years. She theorizes, based on some research, that both Crohns and Ulcerative Colitis may be caused by a paratuberculosis infection. She treats Crohns and UC with herbs like Oregano oil. It's worth looking into for you. I have followed her IBS protocol, and her Yeast protocol. She uses a very holistic mind/body approach, and will often suggest meditation and relaxation techniques to help the healing process along. I really like her, and have been reading her books and following her for a couple of years.

One thing you will find with Jini, however, is that she does NOT agree with Tim, Richard, and Grace about SBOs. She doesn't use SBOs in her protocol, and thinks that they are unproven. So there is that, but I think her protocol for healing bacterial and inflammatory stuff is great.

Best of health, and I hope you get relief!


Dr. B G said...


I took oregano oil only for a few days and nearly gave myself a gastric ulcer -- it's pretty tough stuff that you'd not want to even rub on your kids' skin... Generally our stomachs should be tough enough but I think for some who are ill, it can exacerbate tender inflamed mucous membranes.

Louise, Erik ~ S boulardii and SBOs are like all other probiotics (Lactobacillus, Bifido etc) -- there is a risk of septicemia, eg blood borne infection if the person is severely immuno compromised: low white count, post-chemo, on chemo, post-surgery (surgery is extremely stressful), etc.

Ralnac~ Love your phrase!! U go grrrl!!

"Transdermal magnesium is your friend. Cipro and other fluoroquinolones are evil."

July~ WOW YOU HAVE BEEN THRU THE RINGER! I hear ya -- been there too. After severe gut trauma (antibiotics, vaccines, Accutane), no doubt when you turned back to real food (no GMO or refined crops), GAPS and fermented foods/probiotics then you are replacing many of the gut strains that were lost/decimated.

Can you get yourself to a local CSA farm or friend's garden (local, biodynamic) and volunteer to get some good healthy soil exposures to seed the rest of the strains that need replenishing? Have you read Farmacology by Dr Daphne Miller MD?

Have considered toxins like mercury that are barriers to further gut healing?

Anonymous said...

Dr. BG - yes, I know, and I didn't stay on it long. I found the "Whole Approach" protocol of Caproyl and psyllium seed/husk much gentler and equally effective.

But aside from that I find the theory of the paratuberculosis causing Crohns and UC fascinating. Is there a way to test for that particular bacteria? If that's true, is there an antibiotic that would work for that?

I still love her approach for IBS. You have to heal the mind to heal the body, and I also see that here in what you say, which is one reason I keep coming back here again and again.

Anonymous said...

Dr. BG - Is there any chance you would do a post that is a typical week in your life with regard to when and what you eat, how you exercise, meditate, play, etc.? How you fit it all in, and the different foods you eat/when you eat them to get the RS you eat in a day? Tim claims that you get most of your RS through real food - how does that translate into meals. I've heard you say that the unhealthiest time in your life was when you cut rice - does that mean you eat a ton of rice everyday?

How do you do it when traveling or on vacation?

I am having such a hard time putting all of this together!

vonsachsen said...

Thank you, Tim and Ann!

Anonymous said...

Has there been any other reports from people with Rosacea?
I think Paul Jaminet said that it is some kind of bacterial imbalance and he was cured by fluconazole.

I have been taking RS protocol for a month and my Rosacea is worse. My face is redder?

Any possible suggestions?

Anonymous said...

Re: the rosacea - did you add in the probiotics? Are you eating fermented foods? If you don't have the bacteria you need to begin with, the RS isn't going to do much. You should probably be taking one of the three suggested SBO probiotics. I doubt the RS alone will really do much for autoimmune stuff for most people.

Anonymous said...

For Rosacea I am doing it with probiotics ofcourse. Maybe need to eliminate histamine producing bacteria?
Such as Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus reuteri, Lactobacillus plantarum, and Lactococcus lactis, Enterococcus faecalis.

Dr BG any intersting suggestions for Rosacea/Eczema?

G said...

I think Ann is absolutely right. Probiotics from soil, food, ferments and commercial SBOs may help reseed a devasted gut and 'reset'.

Rosacea and eczema are yeast/fungal driven because the protective gut symbionts are gone from antibiotics or environmental factors. If you can shift the pathobionts out (parasites, fungi, pathogenic bacteria, etc) and shift IN THE GOOD STUFF, I think you will see a complete overall of the skin.

The 7 steps are just a 'rehab' of the gut.

Unknown said...

I know I sound like a broken record, but there's a reason sulfur is known as the world's oldest anytifungal used on crops. Simply adding probiotics to balance may not be enough, or they might need a little help to establish in the face of yeast overgrowth. Try OptiMSM for rosacea in therapeutic doses of about 10 grams daily in three divided doses. Plenty of testimonials on the net. This study combines it with milk thistle for liver support to good effect:

Erik said...

Hi Tim Steele/Tatertot,
I just read what you wrote to me about S. Boulardii a few days ago on FTA. I’ll reply to you here, since you’ll be more likely to read it. I’ll try to explain the reasons why I’ve decided not to supplement with S. Boulardii.

1. I tend to think that supplementing ANY fungi, “probiotic” or not, might not be a good idea. I agree with Paul Jaminet’s view on this:
"The big difference between bacteria and fungi is that we need probiotic bacteria to be healthy, but I’m not aware of evidence that we need probiotic fungi. I know that standard opinion in the fermented community believe that yeasts in kefir and kombucha are beneficial, and they are for some people – especially those with a bacterial dysbiosis. But I’ve also known cases of people with severe Candida infections developing fungemia after supplementing with Saccharomyces boulardii. Adding any yeast to an existing fungal population will allow gene exchange and will add to the fungal burden. All fungi have ways of suppressing immune response to their benefit, and this will tend to promote growth of all fungal species, not just the one you’re supplementing. So I think there are risks to these ferments. So I think the “beneficial” yeasts will tend to keep harmful bacteria in check, but not harmful fungi. Whether they are beneficial overall depends on one’s personal situation.
1) There is a stereotypical immune response which is the same to all fungi. Any fungi that has evolved a way to suppress will therefore suppress immunity against all other fungi as well. Thus, any yeast/fungus that is well adapted to living within a human being (“probiotic” or not) will tend to induce the immune system to tolerate fungi in general.
2) Fungi can exchange genes. Thus, introducing a new species to a fungal infection will increase genetic diversity. This increases the likelihood that the fungi will find a combination of genes that allows them to create a more successful infection. It accelerates their “evolution” within you, helping them become better adapted to their new living environment – you.
There is very little literature on this. It’s hard to study infections in vivo and fungal infections get little clinical study. So we have to use judgment, anecdotal reports, and biology. I could be wrong, but I think this is the most likely way things are.” - Paul Jaminet

2. The following studies:

This is an interested thread to read also:

It’s true that the individuals talked about in the studies in which supplementing S. Boulardii led to trouble where in some way or another immunocompromised. So the conclusion would be that caution is necessary when supplementing with S. Boulardii in immunocompromised individuals. In my view it is wrong to draw the conclusion that it is therefore perfectly fine for healthy people to supplement with it. All we can say is this: Supplementing S. Boulardii can cause big trouble in immunocompromised individuals, and since we don’t have any long term studies on S. Boulardii supplementation in healthy individuals (as far as I know), we must be cautious and use the information that we do have to make the right decision.

Erik said...


But the biggest reason why decided to avoid S. Boulardii is my own story. I’m 22 years old, and my health problems are: SIBO/SIFO (not sure if fungal or bacterial), allergies, chronic nasal congestion, eczema (gets worse after eating fructose), fructose intolerance/malabsorption (probably caused by the SIBO/SIFO).
Here’s the interesting part: all of these health problems started showing up simultaneously at the age of 18-19. At that time I was seeing an orthomolecular therapist for my chronic insomnia, and he had prescribed me a certain probiotic called ‘Imutis’. All of my aforementioned health problems started showing up in the year in which I had started supplementing with that particular probiotic (I took it daily, for about a year). After all this digging for information on S. Boulardii, some bells started ringing, and I decided to look up the ingrediënts of that probiotic ‘Imutis’. It turns out that it contained three strains of probiotic bacteria and S. Boulardii. It might have been a coincidence of course, I don’t know. But I do know now that I’ve already had previous experience with supplementing S. Boulardii for a year (at the time i was ignorant about all this stuff), and that it hasn’t helped me, and it might have made things much worse for me.

I'm sorry for the big wall of text and for my bad english (I'm dutch), but I wanted to make myself clear on this.

Tim Steele said...

Erik - Hartstikke leuk, jongen! Geen problem. Ik vertsaan wel wat je heb gezegd.

Since you are a fellow dutchy, I'll go easy on you. You are doing things smartly, no need to blindly follow the crowd. Life is all about smart choices and taking control of your own life...glad to see you doing that. S. boulardii is certainly not 'verplicht'. I have never taken it in my life, but I think it may be a good tool for some people who are still struggling.

I'm glad you took the time to post the links and also Paul J's thoughts--I hadn't seen those before. This will be a good reference for people who are trying to weigh the benefits of S. boulardii.

Dank je wel!

The Natural said...

I am sure you have tried a lot of things in your quest to fix your health problems, but did you get any tests to confirm that you indeed have any fungus (SIFO)? And what kind of fungus? GI FX is a good test to identify yeasts, fungus and parasites in addition to profiling your git bacteria.

G said...


Thanks for your detailed thoughts and comments. I understand your concerns because they are totally valid. Do you suspect any mercury or toxins that may be affecting immunity or candida?

Have you considered the weed, seed, feed, breed approach?

Tim forwarded this wonderful article -- Knight and Gordon are the gurus of gut health.

Figure 1: Maintaining our gut microbial lawn.


Left alone, weedlike species run wild

--Bypass the weeds? [maybe]
--Bacteriotherapy (healthy human poop)

Anonymous said...

Keith, thank you for the recommendation, I will try MSM and report back in a month. What about MSM cream for topical Rosacea applications?

Erik, so I assume you have tried the protocol and it did not help with Eczema? Have you tried it with MSM?


Anonymous said...

It would be interesting if someone engages Ray Medina regarding S. Boulardii.
But this is an interesting article


Erik said...

G - Thanks for your feedback and the article, it is very informative! I've never really looked into mercury poisoning or other toxins. I've been following PHD diet and lifestyle for almost two years now, which is supposed to minimize toxin exposure, and I wouldn't know of any particular reason why I'd be exposed to more toxins than normal individuals.

I've also been following your SIBO protocol as much as possible for the last few months. It's definitely having a positive effect, but it hasn't completely solved my problems (yet). I think I need to do more testing so that I can address possible fungal/bacterial overgrowth more effectively.

The Natural - I've decided to do the Organix Comprehensive Profile from Metametrix/Genova Diagnostics. I'll post my results when they come in.

SP - I've been following the SIBO protocol (if that's the one you're referring to) for a few months now and it's having a positive effect (less eczema, better digestion), but it hasn't completely solved my issues (yet). I haven't taken MSM. Do you suggest taking it? What's does it do?

Anonymous said...

Erik, that is what Keith Bell suggested few posts above to me.
"I know I sound like a broken record, but there's a reason sulfur is known as the world's oldest anytifungal used on crops. Simply adding probiotics to balance may not be enough, or they might need a little help to establish in the face of yeast overgrowth. Try OptiMSM for rosacea in therapeutic doses of about 10 grams daily in three divided doses. Plenty of testimonials on the net. This study combines it with milk thistle for liver support to good effect:"

I have both dermatitis and rosacea.

You are right, dermatitis is better but Rosacea is worse for some odd reason. At least for now


Erik said...

Thanks SP, I'll look into it. I've never heard of MSM being good against fungal infections before. If my test results indicate a fungal infection I'll give it a try.

JLowBug said...

Hey all,

Maybe you can or someone else out there can help me with this (I posted this at MDA as well so sorry if this is a repeat for anyone). I've been supplementing with the RS for maybe 2 months now (it took a few weeks for me to build up to 4 tbs. of PS and plantain flour). About 2 or 3 weeks ago I noticed a rash slowly, steadily developing under my forearms. Since then my rash (maybe eczema? don't know, never had it before) has exploded on my arms, abdomen, legs and behind the knees. Luckily it hasn't reached my face but I'm getting a little worried. Unfortunately, I have a problem with jumping in to things too quickly and I added several things around the same time which really mucks up trying to pinpoint any one thing.

I'm wondering if it started around the time that I started adding the AOR Pro-3 (I had been on PA for a long time before, it ran out when the PA came so I was not taking it when rash started) as well as L. plantarum. However, I also added some novel (for me) prebiotic foods around the same time as well (dehydrated burdock, dandelion, maca and more recently jerusalem artichoke). More recently I started making my own kefir from grains and while I haven't consumed much directly (because kefir is so strong I have a pretty intense reaction to it) I have definitely come in contact while making and serving it to my family (I'll lick my finger if I get some on it or have a teaspoon to my RS drink). To complicate things further I had also started supplementing with MSM around the same time (I added this after reading some stuff in the comments here but I have since stopped).

Maybe this is a histamine situation, something to do with the accumulated effects? I've read that Lactobacillus, Clostridium and Streptococcus are histamine producing. Obviously, they are normal gut residents but maybe I'm just not ready to process the increase in histamine production (maybe I'm answering my own question)?
My plan right now is to stop everything for a couple of days (even RS which I've been getting from Bob's PS and Berry Farm's Plantain flour, I stopped fermented foods a few days ago though it hasn't made a difference). I'm afraid that the answer is going to be that I need to go much, much more slowly (my least favorite thing to do!). I'm pretty sure my bug numbers are low and some or several are absent entirely.

I'm probably leaving out important details (I've also had an increase in brain fog and fatigue) but I think those are the relevant facts. Any thoughts would be appreciated.


Anonymous said...

Thank you SO MUCH for your blog! I have learned so much from you and very much appreciate you sharing all the information!

I suppose that I have SIBO as well. I have had different symptoms (mostly bloating and acid reflux) over the past 15 years and also my stool analysis showed problems with my gut.

I understand that you must be very busy but I haven't been able to find a doctor who could help me (I don't think there are any in my country) with this and that's why I would like to ask your opinion on my gut analysis. I don't know which results are useful considering SIBO so I'll add them all here:

Pancreatic elastase 1: 230 mcg/g (quite low on the reference range)
Putrefactive SCFAs (total): 3,8 micromol/g (middle range)
Esinophil protein <0.7 mcg/g (low)
Calprotectin <16 mcg/g (low)
Beneficial SCFAs (total): 61,5 micromol/g (high)
n-butyrate 12.8 micromol/g (ok?)
pH 6.2 (quite low)
Beta-gglucuronidase 4379 U/g (quite high)
Lithocholic acid (LCA) 1.33 mg/g (quite low)
Deoxycholic acid (DCA) 2.39 mg/g (middle range)
LCA/DCA ratio 0.56 (quite low)

Beneficial bacteria:
Lactobacillus species: NG
Escherichia coli: NG
Bifidobacterium: 2+

Additional bacteria:
gamma haemolytic Streptococcus 3+
Bacillus species 1+
Mucoid Escherichia coli 4+
Haemolytic Eschericia coli 4+
Streptococcus agalactiae gp B 2+

I also had Rhodotorula yeast and Blastocystis hominis parasite but both of them are succesfully eradicted. However, instead of Rhodotorula, I had Candida kruseii (1+) on the control sample (and probably still have because it hasn't been treated in any way).

Luckily none of this additional bacteria and yeasts are known pathogens. And that, I think, is the only luck I've got :(
Even I can tell these results don't seem good at all :( Beneficial bacteria are missing and instead I have plenty of other bacteria growing heavily in my gut. I understand this is my colon microbiology that was examined and it's different from the small intestine microbiology but I suppose this could tell a story or two about my small intestine, too.

What I don't know if the other results point to SIBO or not.

I have added potato starch to my regime and I take Prescript Assist daily. I also eat paleo-like food (and have done that for about 2 years). Everything should be under control but it's not. The worst thing about this is that I have a bad breath. There's nothing wrong with my teeth, and my dental hygiene protocol is impeccable (obsessive even), so the smell must come from my intestines. I could take all the other symptoms but this is too much: I hate to smell bad but there's absolutely nothing I can do about it (believe me, I've tried everything). I suppose it's the e-coli bacteria that is causing this because there has been studies that show that people with halitosis have more e-coli in their guts than others and I have two strains that are both 4+. I suppose e-coli (or some of the other bacteria) emits DMS and that causes my bad breath.

I have a prescription for a beneficial strain of e-coli (probiotic strain) but it doesn't seem to set a home in my gut. The last stool analysis still showed no growth. I also don't know if I should take it at all: maybe it makes the assumed DMS-problem worse.

I apologise for this long and incoherent post (writing in English is a bit tricky for me). I hope you have time to take a look at my lab results. If you don't that's ok, too (I totally understand)! Anyway, I want to say thank you one more time and wish you sunny spring days!

Kind regards, Liisa

Tim Steele said...

Liisa - Hopefully Grace will have a look, too, but those two e. coli strains you have at 4+ are a sort of red flag to me.

Mucoid Escherichia coli - Looks like it can also infect lungs and respiratory tract. Maybe cause of bad breath?

Haemolytic Eschericia coli - If it's the same as 'Enterohemorrhagic E. coli (EHEC) cause haemorrhagic colitis and haemolytic uraemia syndrome. E. coli O157:H7 is the principal stereotype in this group.' also looks very bad!

Has a doctor looked at these results?

Anonymous said...

Thank you, Tim, for your answer!

My doctor didn't even comment on these bacteria. He was more interested in the lack of beneficial bacteria and other parameters.

I wonder why those e-coli strains were marked as non-pathogens (the tests I took was Genova Diagnostics CDSA2). Maybe they are, after all, part of normal gut flora (although it was really interesting what was said in your link about the connection between cystic fibrosis and mucoid e-coli). To be honest I'm terrified right now…

Do you have any idea how I could fix these problems (especially those e-coli strains)? I'm already following the 7-step protocol for SIBO (well, most of it: I still don't walk enough and the amount of RS could be bigger). It's hard to say if these have helped because it's been 6 months since my last control labs. I think bloating isn't as bad as before, so maybe there's some progress…

Thank you again for helping me out!


Tim Steele said...

Liisa - Don't freak out just yet, please. I'm no doctor.

Of this list, I assume 'NG' means 'none seen'. If so, these look normal:
Beneficial bacteria:
Lactobacillus species: NG
Escherichia coli: NG
Bifidobacterium: 2+

It's great that you have bifidobacteria, many people have none. The NG E. coli is fine, too. If you have none, it doesn't seem to matter. It is present in most people, but I guess I'm confused because it shows up below, as 4+. Most people don't show lots of lactobacillus, either. It just doesn't seem to thrive in huge colonies that can be detected in the stool. It may even be growing (normally) in the small intestine and not leave much evidence in the fecal sample.

On these:

Additional bacteria:
gamma haemolytic Streptococcus 3+
Bacillus species 1+
Mucoid Escherichia coli 4+
Haemolytic Eschericia coli 4+
Streptococcus agalactiae gp B 2+

These are the ones that confuse me. But I guess the report indicates that they aren't outright pathogens, at least.

Your pH of 6.2 is actually very good. The bifido are liking it, which is a very good thing.

So your biggest issues are bloating, acid reflux and bad breath. Are you on any medicine?

Hopefully Grace can comment, but until then, keep calm and continue what you are doing.

Keep going with the RS, have you tried banana flour, green bananas, glucomannan, or plants with inulin? These will all help get your good bacteria to crowd out bad.

Anonymous said...

Hi again, Tim!

Yes, NG means No Growth.

I think there are beneficial e-coli strains (which I don't have) and pathogenic and non-pathongenic strains.

I'm confused about those other bacteria, too. The fact that there are so many heavily growing strains isn't good because it means the microbiology isn't balanced. All of them were labelled as non-pathogens (only "Bacillus species" was marked as possible pathogen if it's 4+ but I only had 1+, so It should be ok).

Bloating, acid reflux and halitosis are the main symptoms. I also have loose stools quite often (I've never had constipation in my life: I don't even know what it's like). Recently I've also lost about 1/4 (or more) of my hair, so something is definitely going on.

Do you think bentonite clay or charcoal would be beneficial for me? Maybe they would help me get rid of the unwanted bacteria?

BTW, thank you for telling me about the lactobacilli! I had no idea they can be undetectable even if there's enough of them.


Tim Steele said...

Liisa - Sure, get some clay or charcoal and follow the directions. Definitely won't hurt--animals do it.

My guess is that you probably do have some overgrowth, but that you also have a fairly good set of microbes that will come to your rescue if you can help them out.

Not sure how your diet looks, but I would be eating lots of fish and lamb, lots of starchy veggies like potatoes and rice--pre-cooked then cooled overnight, you can heat them back up, this will make lots of RS.

Also lots of good leafy veggies, root veggies, and colorful fruits and veggies.

Can you get the other probiotics Grace recommends? AOR Pro-3 and Primal Defense? I'd try those, too, and also get a cheap brand with as many lactobacillus and bifidobacteria as possible.

Eat lots of fermented foods like we mentioned.

And, don't go crazy with everything at once. I think you are making some very smart moves and you have a lab report to look at. Keep with the good diet and probiotics and watch for changes. If you do too much at once and things get worse, it's hard to tell what caused the problems.

I'll get back with you on some ideas about the breath issue...

Anonymous said...

oh, it seems my last message didn't come trough. So here goes again:

My diet is paleo-like: gluten-free, dairy-free, contains lots of organic real food: meat (mostly beef), fish, vegetables and fruit (especially apples and avocados: I think they fit my diet well because they contain a lot of fiber). For years I ate quite low-carb food and especially avoided root veggies because they made me bloated. Now, of course, I understand that has been a big mistake. So it's not a surprise that things aren't so great right now. I also had a very long antibiotic treatment (6 months or so) for acne when I was younger. That could be the root of all my problems. Never since I've felt completely healthy.

For probiotics I take Prescript Assist, Probiotic-3, VSL#3 and some others. I wonder if I should keep taking the probiotic strain of e-coli that has been subscribed to me (Mutaflor). I found an abstract in PubMed where they said that this strain had cured young girl's halitosis. I don't think it has done much for me but at least it increases peristaltic activity in one's gut (I have noticed this, too, when I've taken more than my regular dose).

I fond a very interesting video on Dimethylsulfidemia. And if this is the main reason for my halitosis, it might get better if I manage to get my gut flora back to balance:

I also forgot to mention that I think I have gall-related problems as well. I haven't been to doctor about this, so it's not verified yet. So there probably is too little bile and enzymes in my gut as well and that could be one reason for my symptoms. I'm trying to deal with this by using stone-breaking supplements and fruit and veggies.

So, I'll try my best to keep on track with the diet and supplements. Thank you so much for your help, Tim!


Tim Steele said...

Liisa - Wow, I think it sounds like you are soooo close to getting your problems resolved. I have no doubt your gut flora is jacked-up due to antibiotics and poor diet choices in the past.

What you are doing now sounds great. Keep up with everything and give it some time. Try the charcoal/clay, too. I'm still impressed that you have a good growth of bifidobacteria, I think they are somewhat of an indicator that you are not a lost cause.

If things don't improve fairly rapidly, at least you know you are doing what you can with diet, probiotics, and lifestyle. You may need bigger interventions than can be diagnosed here.

Not sure what effect stone breaking supplements have on gut flora. But if you have gall-bladder issues, best get it looked at professionally.

Good luck! Watching video now, thanks!

Anonymous said...

Yes, for sure I have to ask my doctor about these gall-problems (although they might also be about my low pancreas function that shows in the stool analysis as well). At the moment I just eat a lot of apples and radishes - they are supposed to dissolve gallstones if there are some.

BTW, Grace recommended in one of her posts that one could go to a clean and healthy garden to be in contact with healthy soil. Do you know how this should be done? I have a great place for that: my summer cottage where everything grows incredibly well and where no pesticides or fertilizers have never (literally never, at least for 100 years) been used. Should I eat dirt straight from the ground or how could I use this incredible place for my health?

Tim Steele said...

Liisa - Maybe you'd better tell me exactly where this cottage and fertile garden are located...I will go spend the summer there and let you know if it is suitable. An airplane ticket would be nice, too.

Seriously, here's what you do...go out to this magical place as much as you can. Dig in the dirt with your bare hands, walk barefoot, and don't use hand sanitizers. Plant radishes and leafy stuff that grows very fast, and also whatever else grows well in your climate, especially root crops like carrots, beets, etc...

When the radishes are ready to eat, pull them from the ground, brush off the big clingy chunks of dirt, maybe blow on them to get most of the grit off, and eat. This is the best dirt, that little bit found clinging to root vegetables. The microbiome of a radish or carrot is very similar to that of a healthy human. The microbes release compounds that protect the root from pathogens, and help it take up nutrients from the soil.

Also, similar with lettuce and leafy veggies...pick a handful and eat it right there without excessive scrubbing and rinsing. If there's a big worm or spider, shoo him away, but the plants are very healthy eaten this way. If I'm serving guests, I will wash the leaves and spin them dry...but just for myself, it's from the ground to my mouth.

Really, just try to get off the grit, stones, and sand and any obvious stuff that shouldn't be there.

Also, if there are no nosy neighbors, get as much time in the sun with as few clothes on as possible. You won't believe how good that is for the soul (and gut).

Have fun!

Anonymous said...

Thank you, Tim, that's what I'll do next summer!

This place is in Finland, so I'll have to wait until June before I can plant anything. Carrots, radishes and lettuce grow very well here, so those I'll plant! And thankfully Finns are used to nudity (own or neighbors'), so I'll enjoy the sun as well :)

Maybe I should send you some dirt as a thank you for all your help. It's top quality (both the dirt and the help)! :D


Tim Steele said...

DIRT? I want pictures! Do this...take some pictures of the place, the dirt, and what you grow there. Email them to Grace and maybe she will be kind enough to include them in a blog about healthy dirt someday.

My growing season doesn't start until June, too. One of the best crops I grow is cabbage, then make sauerkraut with it. Talk about healthy!

Sounds like a fabulous place you have there. I've heard the fishing is good in Finland, too, in case you need another hobby. Fish guts make great garden fertilizer. Start a compost pile, save all your food scraps, weeds, and garden waste and turn them into plant food.

Anonymous said...

Waaay ahead of you: we already have a compost box that also is active during winter. Unfortunately the lake nearby isn't very good for fishing, though. And the baltic sea is the most polluted sea there is (thanks to our neighbors), so it's not the best place to fish either :(

Home made sauerkraut sounds amazing! Does it need to be refrigerated or can you keep it in room temperature?


Tim Steele said...

Liisa - Look for the Sandoor Katz books or similar. Kraut making is easy if you have all the equipment, but you can easily make smaller batches and just eat fresh. I like to make about 10 gallons and store for winter.

Good job on compost box!

Steve said...

Hi Grace

long time since i posted a comment here, but you are a still must read.

I was thinking about eating raw, organic carrots without washing them. Companies are selling SBO in a pill. So would it not be better to get the SBO from edible raw organic vegs and fruits?

Any thoughts?


Dr. B G said...


Thx for your kind comments. I think raw organic carrots are great! However for true gut healing, for those who need it, the 'dose' pharmacologically may not be enough. If you read the probiotic studies (or see here or MDA or FTA) what the anectdotal outcomes are, then you may notice a lack of results particularly in those who don't take the whopper commercial probiotics.

For me, when I had the parasite, yeasts and bacterial (Morganella morganii) overgrowth, sauerkraut and minimally washed (or not at all) organic carrots were clear not enough. Each person is a unique snowflake -- so possibly for a rare few, that 'dose' would suffice.

Eva ~ Sorry I missed your comment. Thank you for writing. Yes I believe UC definitely can benefit from the 7 steps, particularly also an additional targeted 'weeding' and seeding.

UC is not different from any other condition: dysbiosis and missing commensals. You need to find out what is overgrowing and what strains are missing
--E coli

Liisa, Love your discussions about gardening and DIRRRRRRRRRRRTY living!! I love Finnish grrrls as I work with several at Gluten-Free Shanghai here.

Yes we do need the beneficial E coli because they are predators and consume pathogenic yeasts and other overgrowths. Yours is too low and the pathogens are too high.

The probiotics are fantastic so I am surprised that you are not seeing faster improvement in the halitosis and bloating. Have you considered some weeding? Did you read my post? I had similar problems as you describe but the testing I did was more specific than the CDSA (which clearly sucks -- doesn't provide the parasite or digestive enzyme profiles).

Please update us with your progress!

Dr. B G said...


I'm sorry if you emailed me -- please try again. If anyone experiences a rash, definitely some vipers are in zoo! Targeted weeding would be considered beneficial. It could be overgrowths of parasites, yeasts or any pathogenic bacteria FYI.

Liisa -- what is the time frame for the CDSA report and treatment? Have you repeated or considered doing the Genova GI 2200 panel instead? This yields far more information. Consider also the ONE, optimal nutri eval. You will get mild idea of the toxin burden (plastics, environmental) etc.

Anonymous said...

Thank you, Grace, so much for your comments! And yes, I've read practically all your posts on this blog! This is

I would very much like to do the Metametrix GI Fx and ONE -tests (haven't heard about GI 2200 before - have to do some research!) but the first isn't available in Finland (as far as I know) and the other costs something like 450 euros (the price is too crazy for me right now).

However I have some more new information on my gut bacteria. I went through my old papers and found out I'm low on "eubacteria clostridium" (or at least I was last fall when this test was done). These bacteria, they say, eat polysaccharides, so maybe potato starch is the key here? I was also wondering if cellulose fiber would be a good idea to add to my regime? That's pure insoluble fiber and therefore good for this bacteria, right?

The CDSA2-test was done about one year ago and the second one (only microbiology and parasites) was done about 7 months ago. So all the information is quite old. I have taken tons of probiotics for about a year now but didn't realize I have to feed them too, so maybe that's the reason I haven't succeeded yet? I have taken potato starch and psyllium for only about a month now. I get bloated from it, so I'm a little concerned that the starch is fermenting in the small intestine (because of SIBO). Is there anything I can do about it except for taking psyllium with it (which I'm already doing) and walking as much as I can? Or should it get better with time?

Actually, if one has SIBO, isn't it a bad idea to take RS? Or will it somehow help removing the bacteria from small intestine? Do you know (or have an educated guess) how this thing works?

And one more thing: I just found out I'm iron-deficient as well (not yet anemic, though, for some reason). Do you think it's a good idea to supplement iron or will it feed the bad bacteria? I think low iron may be a reason for many of my symptoms and therefore I think it would be important to supplement it.

Forgive me for asking so many questions (I know you are extremely busy) but I'm trying to learn the mechanism behind all this. Can't help myself :D


Dr. B G said...


What overgrowths were decected on any of the testing?

Have you tried plantain or g banana flour yet? If you can't find these then what I do is arabinogalactan or inulin to feed the benficial bifidobacter and lactobacilli.

I'm sorry the costs are so enormous so I guess the CDSA is more cost effective for now? If the bloating is excessive (I had some too), then consider the value of re-seeding the gut first then later feeding the probiotics. Walking and exercise is beneficial because often in SIBO there's intestinal stagnation. For me jogging or walking 20 min after meals was effective to overcome the stagnation and a great way to get fresh air (or in Shanghai, pollution LOL). you are absolutely correct that RS may feed RS-consumers in the small intestines but the 7 steps helps minimize as much as possible.

Iron may feed the microbes but for anemia, it provides oxygenation capacity for the red blood cells and you won't feel so crappy ;)

Ultimately anemia is secondary likely to severe gut problems so I believe it is great that you are following up on all your gut feelings (pun).

Which probiotics are you using?

Your results you said beneficial: Lactobacillus species: NG
Escherichia coli: NG
Bifidobacterium: 2+

If you used strong antibiotics to get rid of B hominii, then even less of the above are available.

In Europe E coli NISSLE strain is popular and great as a probiotic. We don't have in the States for probably ridiculous reasons.

Are you getting any Lactobacilli probiotics, particularly L plantarum which is a fantastic soil based organisms? It is in some kraut but for gut rehab, higher than what is found in food is necessary in trials.

Do you read a blog called Heisenbug? He's fantastic and talks a lot about L planturum which cured his eczema.


Anonymous said...

Thank you, again, for your help, Grace! :)

Yes, I had to take Metronidazole and Trimethoprim for the blastocystis hominis, so probably that destroyed what was left of my beneficial bacteria. I took another test a few months after the antibiotics and fortunately still had some bifidos left (and this time they detected some lactobacilli as well).

The overgrowths detected are:

1st testing (about 12 months ago):
alpha haemolytic Streptococcus 2+
gamma haemolytic Streptococcus 3+
Bacillus species 2+
Mucoid Eschericia coli 2+
beta strep (not group A or B) 4+
Rhodotorula species 1+

2nd testing (about 6 months ago, after the antibiotics and nystatin):
gamma haemolytic Streptococcus 3+
bacillus species 1+
Mucoid Eschericia coli 4+
Haemolytic Eschericia coli 4+
Streptococcus agalactiae gp B 2+
candida kruseii 1+

So, the problem seems to be the e-colis and the streptococci. All of these are supposed to be non-pathogenic bacteria and yeast but, of course, no heavy growths like these are not desired.

As probiotics I'm taking Prescript Assist, Probiotic-3, Mutaflor/e-coli Nissle (I started this again about a week ago), some lactobacilli (including plantarum), some bifidos, VSL#3 and some others. I have planned a trip to ethnic food store to get something containing licheniformis, too, but haven't had time to go there yet. And thank you for the Heisenbug tip, I hadn't heard about the blog! Must go and see if it's helpful for me :)

I haven't tried banana flour or plantain yet but I'll try to find these somewhere. And I'll keep taking potato starch even though it makes me bloated. How long did it take for you, Grace, to get rid of the bloating following the 7 steps? I'll be able to handle the bloating if I know I'm going to the right direction with all this. I was also wondering if it's a problem that I've taken psyllium flour instead of husk because it's easier to get. Maybe I'll have to change that, too.

BTW, do you think dysbiosis could be the reason for elevated calcitriol in my blood? I'm in the understanding that infections may elevate the calcitriol levels and I have no idea what that infection might be. At least the CDSA shows there shouldn't be an infection in my gut except for the dysbiosis.

And one more thing: I heard that AOR Probiotic-3 will be out of market for months because they have to renew a license for it and it may take months! So this isn't a great news to any of us, I suppose :( I just found out I lack clostridia and I have no idea where else to get it from. Hopefully there is some in the soil of my garden and forests where I walk and dig the ground in (I actually ate some dirt when I was at the cabin this weekend, I hope it helps…).

Have a great week (all of you)!


P1 said...

My Metametrix GI Effects test shows high SCFA, which they then deduce as evidence of protein malabsorption. Is it possible that this result is actually reflecting high coconut milk intake, or some other food that might elevate SCFA?